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NEW - Top Priority is ?

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264729.69 in reply to 264729.60
Date: 11/8/2014 4:32:12 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
370370
Okay, you cannot develop an entire roster through in-house training. I have also seen it stated that you cannot develop an entire roster through the transfer list. The result: successful rosters are a mix of home-grown and pickups from the transfer list ... so where's the problem with that?


Actually most elite teams only build through the TL. As you progress through the ranks you will see less and less training. Your matter of fact responses as actual fact are laughable. There is a whole other side to BB you have yet to experience. This isn't meant to be demeaning, but you have hardly played this game long enough to have any opinions that are actual fact.


Thank you for the clarification. So, I guess the answer to my question is ... if you cannot build a roster entirely through in-house training, that isn't actually a problem. Okay, thanks, that's what I thought.

This Post:
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264729.74 in reply to 264729.73
Date: 11/8/2014 8:35:30 PM
Quilmes MDQ
III.4
Overall Posts Rated:
88
Next thing to fix: the dreadful minute management when your opponent walksover. It's awful to see that nearly every player gets fouled out, and how that ruins the training plan... I am not asking to benefit from walk-over, but not to be penalized when using the whole roster available every competitive match.

This Post:
00
264729.75 in reply to 264729.74
Date: 11/8/2014 11:53:49 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
370370
Personally i find what is best with this game is also what drives managers away. The complex system that you need to figure out and then patiently try to see your plan go into motion.

Now there's a winner! Patience is a virtue.

One side effect of faster training is the increased marginalization of lower potential levels, since those would cap that much faster than currently. And of course, given the current prevailing opinion of the draft as being only measurable in terms of the number of 18 year olds with MVP+ potential as is, this would be even more extreme.
Another side effect would be the increase in the escalation of young player salary compared to current. Of course, that wouldn't be a concern if we were certain that players would never train players who become unaffordable to them, but that's currently not the case.

+2!!
One thought would be an occasional lower potential level guy who actually has higher caps, sort of a diamond in the rough. Maybe they wouldn't be so easily discarded.
Escalation of young player salary would be even more problematical than it already is, as you observe, but just imagine the escalation of transfer prices of higher level potential youths! Out of sight!

Actually team training seems most natural and intuitive idea for basketball manager simulation. Kinda weird to think of only training 1 player and forcing him into X minutes at X position.

I have to agree with that. It has always struck me as a rather illogical compromise of basketball simulation in order to meet the need for manageable programming. If the programming of BB has progressed, maybe there is now room for some improvement as trainer suggests.


Last edited by Mike Franks at 11/8/2014 11:57:53 PM

This Post:
00
264729.76 in reply to 264729.75
Date: 11/9/2014 12:19:48 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
One side effect of faster training is the increased marginalization of lower potential levels, since those would cap that much faster than currently. And of course, given the current prevailing opinion of the draft as being only measurable in terms of the number of 18 year olds with MVP+ potential as is, this would be even more extreme.
Another side effect would be the increase in the escalation of young player salary compared to current. Of course, that wouldn't be a concern if we were certain that players would never train players who become unaffordable to them, but that's currently not the case.

+2!!
One thought would be an occasional lower potential level guy who actually has higher caps, sort of a diamond in the rough. Maybe they wouldn't be so easily discarded.
Escalation of young player salary would be even more problematical than it already is, as you observe, but just imagine the escalation of transfer prices of higher level potential youths! Out of sight!


I'm not sure introducing more randomness into the potential is the answer, though, since the randomness of the draft is already (to put it charitably) unpopular. I think instead something that made lower potential players more valuable overall would be an appropriate direction to complement this - so, just for a hypothetical, on the general theme of "increase training speed" one might suggest the following implementation:

1. Training speed is increased for skills at lower levels (e.g., training IS for a player with IS 5 will be significantly faster than a player with IS 15).
2. Something similar to the elastic effect, whereby if a player's skill is among his lowest skills, it trains faster, and if it's among his highest, it trains slower.
3. A change to potential caps and salary formulas so that all skills below a certain value (7 or 8) do not affect the player's potential cap and do not significantly boost salary.
4. Some rebalancing of salary and cap calculations and training speed of certain regimes versus others (which would deserve much more analysis than this post is attempting).

So in an environment where those four changes were made, pretty much any player could be trained to be 7 or 8 in every skill plus some additional boosts in their primary skills, so someone wanting to build a homegrown team could still create attractive players even with lower potential players than today, and the utility of the middle potential players could be expanded. There would be incentive to train players with more balance than is usual, with much faster returns and lower salary impact from doing so, which could also shield some of the salary escalation issues.

Of course, the downside here is that at that point, it's essentially a mandate that all players should have 7 in all their secondary skills, which takes some of the variety out of the game. So there'd have to be something to temper that push somewhat. And that's of course the point - changes have ripples and it's important that those effects are understood and accounted for when rebalancing or we get the situation like we're in now, where the changes made to combat the overpowering of outside offense in the early seasons of the game have pretty much rendered inside offenses as the dominant paradigm.

This Post:
00
264729.77 in reply to 264729.71
Date: 11/9/2014 7:01:35 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
#1 Help newer and lower level users get more out of it
That'd be nice.
#2 Motivate people to have larger stabler rosters (12 guys used in a regular, normal, rotation)
Nice as well
#3 Balance the market, specifically cost of low salary/low skill vs. medium to high salary and mega-skills
I think the balancing exercise should be to punish (through salary) inflated skills for each role, especially at particularly high levels. People will find ways to exploit the salary formulas and the skills relative efficiency. If you want to hold this back without changing training or GE, it has to be through the cost of each skill. If you find that starting SGs in the top 100 teams have on average 20OD, 20DR, 12IS, 10JR, then IS should cost more than JR, OD and DR should be close. If you do this gradually over many seasons, there will be a trade-off between salary and skill efficiency and at some point training more of the inflated skills will not be worth the extra salary. People will indentify different new builds which satisfy both skill and salary efficiency.

We'd need transparency about how costs will change over time though and we'll need an assurance that things will not change massively within the training span of players. This is better than radical GE changes, I'd think

This Post:
11
264729.78 in reply to 264729.74
Date: 11/9/2014 7:03:21 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
Next thing to fix: the dreadful minute management when your opponent walksover.
I think Sid Vicious collapsed better minute management under abolishing blanks/LCD.

I agree this should be done and not just for walkovers. If it should be 1st, 2nd or 5th I don't know.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 11/9/2014 7:03:43 PM

This Post:
00
264729.79 in reply to 264729.76
Date: 11/10/2014 12:33:51 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
370370
Thank you for considering my input. With regard to "I'm not sure introducing more randomness into the potential is the answer, though, since the randomness of the draft is already (to put it charitably) unpopular," some more thought is in order.

I am also against introducing randomness for randomness' sake, absolutely, just as you seem to be. In my view that penalizes skilled managers and therefore benefits the unskilled disproportionately by taking things in the direction of trivializing skilled management. However, an occasional diamond in the rough is NOT merely randomness for randomness sake. It would be a specific example of something you say would be desirable: "I think instead something that made lower potential players more valuable overall would be an appropriate direction..."

The greatest danger I see from making draftees too good (and training youths too good) is the way it would exacerbate the already too great overvaluing of youth and undervaluing of older players on the transfer market. Youth prices woukld go totally out of sight. That sort of imbalance might prove to be a bell that couldn't be unrung.

Thanks.

Last edited by Mike Franks at 11/14/2014 4:33:12 PM

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