BuzzerBeater Forums

I would be surprised to know that HCA is determined that way in B3.

I think the main problem of this idea is salary. Salary is not very good at discriminating the quality of equally paid players. For example, a SF with high IS would be charing almost the same as one with a much lower level in that skill but, all of us would agree that the first one is better(like Passing for a SG). There many problems when salary is used to determine wheter a player is or isn't better than other.

Second, it is not so important who has the better players but how are those players being used. The Power Value approach doesn't take into account the performance of a team.

While I agree that current ranking system might be improved we don't know exactly how it works. We know is very valuable to advance in the National Tornament and that being invited to B3 gives you also some points but I'm not very sure how it works besides that.

Last edited by Zero, the Magi. at 10/7/2010 1:00:12 PM

I would be surprised to know that HCA is determined that way in B3.

I'm not sure that it is, I just remember reading something about Home court being decided using rankings, but I could be completely wrong here and just misremembering something so don't hold me to it :P

This is similar to a team in div 1 constantly winning the championship, and then selling all his players for 4 weeks.
Using your system, he would have a ranking of 0 during those 4 weeks. And so would be the worst team in the country according to rankings.

Yes I agree with alot of the things that you all said, as I said this was made to gesture an idea and receive comments.

I should have mentioned before on how I thought this would be beneficial and used. I don't think by all means it should replace the current ranking system. The current ranking is an indicator of the past accomplishments and we get good idea of their potent based on it, that ranking is the best and safest way to actually know how good that team is, and it is that ranking that say if you are div 1 team that sold all your players, will still indicate that you are very good.

The Power Value system is strictly made for one purpose and one purpose only. That is to measure how good is the team you are about to face, not a measure whatsoever of how well the team has done to that point and their situated position in accomplishment. If a team did sell all their players and you are about to face that team that has nothing, then the Power Value of 0 will accurately indicate how strong that team is when you will face them. In Conclusion, The Power Value is NOT made to measure the ranking of a team based on success but strictly an indicator of how good the team is you are facing based on their current roster.

While I agree that salary is not the best indicator of how good a player is, the information available to us on the other teams do not provide any better measure of how good a player is, with salary being the closest tool acknowledged. The salary is widely agreed within BB as best indicator of how good a player is from the limited information we have. If the skills of each player were available to us then determining how good a player is would be a completely different story.

As far as having less than 12 players in a roster, that's a very good point acknowledge I should have thought about. As I mention earlier I was only trying to show basic example as opposed to finalized proposal. That's one of the issues need to be addressed. I feel like if there are less than 12 players, adjusting the team's power value will definitely be the way to go about it. For now I'm just suggesting and how the adjustment will be made would require some work which for now i'll wait on figuring it. The final point i like to make is that i think with certainty adjusted power value can resolve this issue.

Other things that are involved such as enthusiasm level, home/away court, injuries, etc. Yes there are even more things to consider than this, as I mentioned earlier about the 3 players example and different salaries among them that's one thing to consider for example. With mentioning that in mind I tried to also send the message that yeah I did have few other things I knew should be taken into consideration. All of them should be considered, but the real point that I am trying to make is that they can be addressed and you can make it work.

Power Value of a team works pretty much exactly like we see in a video game, each team gets a value that indicates how good they are, and that's based on a formula that considers the players in the roster and their value. Power Value works exactly in that same way where values being considered are the salary. I think anyone who plays video game would like to know how good a team is, and that's exactly the case with Power Value it can provide us that exact info we would love to know about the other team. And like if for example in NBA Live you have 5 players on your roster and not 12, NBA Live would use some algorithm to consider the subsidized number of players, such can address the less than 12 players in BB


Last edited by Coach_Gil at 10/7/2010 4:29:54 PM

Gameshape is also an important factor to consider. As well as whether you use the salary shown or the "true" salary. The "true" salary is different to the salary shown because of training or drop in skills. So which one is used for the power value?

The Power Value system is strictly made for one purpose and one purpose only. That is to measure how good is the team you are about to face

i believe when you analyse your opponent, you could your time better then calculating with this formula ;) Even when choosing a probadly best formation isn't a bad move with it. And what brings you a indication of the ebst ten, when he plays with double backups etc.

And to emasure on salary only is very biased, salary differences on Centers are less important then salary differences on point guards etc. And also the skill contribution plays a role there ;)

Also who would be considered the 5 starters, 5 backups, and 2 reserve; That's something up for debate but obviously a way can be figured out. Something like take the top 5 highest salary players as starters, next 5 as backups, and next 2 as reserve. But if top 5 highest salary players are center for example and only 2 of them start, then that can possess an issue. So again like I said earlier I proposed the basic idea, how would you determine who would be considered who is up for debate. But just like NBA Live would be able to give a rating for how a good a team is even if they are all centers, so can Power Value deliver such result

This really should be in the suggestions forum :)

However, I don't think it is something that is necessary. I think that if you want to know how strong a team is then you should scout them. Any formula you use to work out the power value is going to have flaws in it.
For example, my team often runs with 5 great players (1 per position) and I play them for 48 minutes in the game I want to win. I make sure they all have strong stamina approximately, so they play at great performance the whole match. Much better than a backup. Obviously I sold all my players recently to concentrate on training for a while, but the point still stands.

Thank you very much Naker Virus, and Mod-CrazyEye. All are things which I agree should be considered. That's more the direction where I'm trying to get this forum to go, throw the suggestions and remarks on what should be considered and hopefully Power Value can be a very useful tool

No worries. It was a well thought out suggestion (more so than most suggestions I see), but I feel that there is no formula that will account for all situations. There will always be a flaw. Some of those flaws include centers having higher salary, gameshape not taken in to account, training not taken in to account, teams with less than 12 players or more than 12 players.

Thank you very much Naker Virus, and Mod-CrazyEye. All are things which I agree should be considered. That's more the direction where I'm trying to get this forum to go, throw the suggestions and remarks on what should be considered and hopefully Power Value can be a very useful tool

mnaybe take the game ratings, they are also a rough guide about the quality of a team and they include motivation, the lineup, the secondary skills and are relativ fair in the distribution betwen "big and small men". So probadly i would make a formula out of it, i believe there is already one out there.

PS: Instead of salary i maybe would use the dmi, when i work to analyse my opponent, because it considers training and gs quite well.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 10/7/2010 4:59:01 PM

Yea to create Power Value to be good indicator you would have to take a lot of data to have a more accurate power value. gameshape for example you would have to look alot on how it impacts how the player perform in a game on average to know how it would adjust the power value, and adjustments also be made given that centers are much higher in salary. Like you said it will always have flaw, the current ranking themselves also have flaws. Anything that is based on algorithm is made to be as best predictor.

Could you send me the main suggestion forums please? I like to just send the link for this on the suggestion forum and brief explanation