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246528.7 in reply to 246528.6
Date: 8/19/2013 9:39:47 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
774774
So have a race to see who can have the most bleachers. Go ahead.

In my league, the team with the 4th lowest bleachers has the 1st highest attendance money.

If you want to build that many bleachers by div 3, then be my guest, but then stop building them entirely after 13k.

If you remember me, then I don't care if everyone else forgets.
This Post:
00
246528.8 in reply to 246528.7
Date: 8/19/2013 2:22:17 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
304304
I only have 11K bleachers and am doing all my additional building in LT and Courtside now. I was just questioning whether D-III teams can sell as many LT as you suggested. I just don't have any frame of reference to know one way or the other.

This Post:
00
246528.9 in reply to 246528.8
Date: 8/19/2013 4:01:32 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
I only have 11K bleachers and am doing all my additional building in LT and Courtside now. I was just questioning whether D-III teams can sell as many LT as you suggested. I just don't have any frame of reference to know one way or the other.


I'd say at least 3500 should be feasible, but I'm not sure if you can sell much more than that. I think I was hitting the 3k mark pretty close to consistently at $23 for lower tier, but at $24 I won't for a while now (i.e., until playoffs), since I just took a major hit on my fan survey.

Courtside definitely should be maxed out. Luxury for III really isn't going to top 40.

This Post:
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246528.10 in reply to 246528.9
Date: 8/19/2013 5:37:45 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
304304
What is the max for courtside? 500?

From: P. Tom

This Post:
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246528.11 in reply to 246528.10
Date: 8/19/2013 5:50:10 PM
Surry Hills Peeps
II.3
Overall Posts Rated:
12171217
Yes 500 is correct.

This Post:
00
246528.12 in reply to 246528.6
Date: 8/20/2013 9:59:43 AM
Woodbridge Wreckers
DBA Pro A
Overall Posts Rated:
14211421
Same goes for my dutch Div. II league. I'd say build more bleachers early on instead of the lower tier because they sell so easily, and stop building them at 13k. I agree that you'll need much more lower tier later on to get the the ideal arena, but you don't need them early on because they don't bring in that much money for the building costs if you build that many.

I always build up gradually, keeping in mind the return on investment. If I have $70.000 and I can chose to add 700 bleachers that sell for 15 or 100 lower tier that sell for 30, I know what I'm building.

This Post:
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246528.13 in reply to 246528.12
Date: 8/20/2013 10:08:06 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
Same goes for my dutch Div. II league. I'd say build more bleachers early on instead of the lower tier because they sell so easily, and stop building them at 13k. I agree that you'll need much more lower tier later on to get the the ideal arena, but you don't need them early on because they don't bring in that much money for the building costs if you build that many.

I always build up gradually, keeping in mind the return on investment. If I have $70.000 and I can chose to add 700 bleachers that sell for 15 or 100 lower tier that sell for 30, I know what I'm building.


And then when you've got 13k bleachers and, say, 2500 LT seats, and you promote to I, hooray! I'm sure you'll have $2.8M lying around to spend on adding those last 4000 LT seats, and wouldn't have anything better at all to use it on. ;)

Return on investment is one way of looking at it, sure, but another way of looking at it is that at some point you're going to invest X dollars total in building your stadium, and are you going to have better results investing while money is easily made or when you're scraping for every dollar you can?

This Post:
00
246528.14 in reply to 246528.13
Date: 8/20/2013 1:14:21 PM
Woodbridge Wreckers
DBA Pro A
Overall Posts Rated:
14211421
Uhm yeah I think I can build more than 2500 LT before I promote to Div. I. I'm not saying ROI is the 1 thing you should base your arena investment decisions upon, but I do think, certainly at early stages, it's very profitable to use it. The later on, you indeed need to balance it out by building LT even though their ROI is lower.

I don't know if it's connected, but it seems to me that a lot of people from the US tend to follow 1 theory strictly, as opposed to using a bit of everything. I'm bringing in the ROI because I see many people advising to build many LT because you need them in the end, to add another insight to the discussion. I don't mean that it's the one and only way to go, it's just something I think you should take into account. I noticed it at university too, the US books almost always prescribed the single best way to manage your organization, while the European books described the different theories that exist in the field. But I'm getting offtopic.

This Post:
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246528.15 in reply to 246528.14
Date: 8/20/2013 1:37:25 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
Uhm yeah I think I can build more than 2500 LT before I promote to Div. I. I'm not saying ROI is the 1 thing you should base your arena investment decisions upon, but I do think, certainly at early stages, it's very profitable to use it. The later on, you indeed need to balance it out by building LT even though their ROI is lower.

I don't know if it's connected, but it seems to me that a lot of people from the US tend to follow 1 theory strictly, as opposed to using a bit of everything. I'm bringing in the ROI because I see many people advising to build many LT because you need them in the end, to add another insight to the discussion. I don't mean that it's the one and only way to go, it's just something I think you should take into account. I noticed it at university too, the US books almost always prescribed the single best way to manage your organization, while the European books described the different theories that exist in the field. But I'm getting offtopic.


That sounds like a case of theory vs. practice - I've seen way too many teams with huge bleacher sections and way too small lower tiers, even (or especially) here in the US and A. If anything, the reason I go with this theory is as much because it's a lot cheaper to fix having too few bleachers than it is to fix too few LT.

As far as the general comment about the US, it's more that there's a predominant school of thought that there are two sides to every story, and as long as you can make the other side look bad, your side wins. ;)

This Post:
11
246528.16 in reply to 246528.15
Date: 8/20/2013 5:01:43 PM
Woodbridge Wreckers
DBA Pro A
Overall Posts Rated:
14211421
Yeah I agree with many teams having too many bleachers and too few lower tier, and agree the optimal finished arena should be around 13k/7k/500/50, but I just think you lose money if you build many LT early. The end goal is the same, just the progression differs.

And that would explain things, politics is the same right? While in europe many goverments consists of multiple parties, you guys have just the democrats and the republicans. It's funny how you see signs of that in games like BB.

This Post:
22
246528.17 in reply to 246528.16
Date: 8/20/2013 7:26:32 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
Yeah I agree with many teams having too many bleachers and too few lower tier, and agree the optimal finished arena should be around 13k/7k/500/50, but I just think you lose money if you build many LT early. The end goal is the same, just the progression differs.

And that would explain things, politics is the same right? While in europe many goverments consists of multiple parties, you guys have just the democrats and the republicans. It's funny how you see signs of that in games like BB.


I wouldn't say people should have 4500/4500/500/50 or anything that extreme - there's a balance there that's needed initially for sure. I'd say that the goal for the lower tier should be trying to make sure you sell most of them at a little above the minimum price point, which gives you cushion for demotion or bad seasons. If you can't sell more than 2k in IV, there's not much point in building up to 5k there for sure. It's the main reason I'm still at 40 luxury boxes - that's pretty much the max I can sell at the minimum price, so until I promote it's no good to add more.

And yeah, politics is basically where you get people who are not only unashamed of their stupidity but choose to flaunt it. Whether it's our system where Republicans and Democrats would argue the sky is green and grass is blue if their opponent said otherwise, or Belgium's almost two year inability to get a government formed, or even supposedly simple things like trying to figure out a name for a country that happens to have a city called Skopje, people are notoriously unreliable.

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