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i saw way earlier a post from you about this hypothesis, that a set of skills that are trained comes into play with this ellastic effect. you had this though a bit longer than this thread was created, didn't you? :)

yeah is it a while ago, i first noticed it at a center who get trained in blocking(in late late days the german nt including me was fan of this skill). I believed Kienbink convinced me totally^^ but i don't have hard data, or list which skills are connected(but the same assumption then Josef^^), so it is fine when Josef take a look into it, because as we all know he makes good analysis.

Edit: But i have a sidenote on the topic, what count the total difference or the relativ. I am pretty sure it is the total difference, becuase i trained plenty of "1" which sometimes take a while(passing for bigs) and sometimes don't affect the other big men training(Blocking for my SF). And in this area you make big differences in the relativ distance.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 9/30/2010 7:55:01 AM

i maybe could imagine that it is stronger at OD, because JS also includes JR which would be logically my first choiche as connector. But that is just a bloody guess.

If this new theory is true one on one would become one of the most important things to train for just about any player since every outside skill is elastic with DR and BH. This in addition to the fact that one on one creates more pops than any other training, is two positioned trained, and DR and BH have no effect on salary for four of the positions makes it extraordinarily powerful.

Ahhh... but, 1v1 (and JS) are only available as 2-position trainings. So even though it will trigger the elastic effect, it takes longer to build it up in the first place. Elaborating on this a bit...

Here's training type/primary (fastest trained) skill(s)/secondaries:
Pressure / OD / Id, Hn, Dr
SB / SB / Id, Rb
ID / ID / Dr, Is, Sb
Rb / Rb / Id, Is
IS / IS / Id, Js
1v1 / Dr / Hn, Js, Is
Outside shooting / JR / Js, Dr, Hn
JS / JS / Jr, Hn, Dr, IS
BH / Hn / Dv, OD
Passing / Pa / Hn, Dr

So, how valuable is each skill in generating the elastic effect? That is, for how many training types is each skill considered a secondary?
JS: 4, JR: 1
OD: 1, Hn: 5
Dr: 5, Pa: 0
IS: 4, ID: 4
Rb: 1, SB: 1

So the most useful skills to have high are JS, Hn, Dr, IS, ID. The only ones of these that can be trained (as a primary skill) single position are IS, ID and Hnd.

So if this is correct, the implication is that for big men, it's better to get IS & ID high quickly, and neglect Rb early on. The Rb will train faster later (since IS & ID will "pull" it up), while the only thing it would slow down is SB.

For guards, it would actually seem that Hnd training early might be worthwhile. Once the Hnd gets good, it'll help drag up a whole bunch of things, actually, all the other guard skills. 1v1 would fit this bill as well, but again, since it's only available to 2-position training, it takes longer to get those skills high enough to drag other things up. This would be a good test of the highest vs average issue though... better to have all 3 pretty good, or just Hnd very good?

I think that handling trains driving at 80% and 1vs1 trains driving and handling at 80%. Pretty much the same.

Maybe some skills or a compilation of the training gets you faster results, (i have my doubts about how much is that effect) but the game as far as about me its a competitive. Win comes 1st, everything else 2nd. So an other factor is the opportunity cost. A player with 13 OD and nothing else in my eyes will not be as useful as a player with more balanced training.

When i have 2-3 hard games i will not train skills that are 1 position. I will train for example ( since i train guards) JS or DR. I am trying to keep the balance between win/developing players, and in general i like the balanced players. Also nothing can convince me to train SB for big men, since being the Cyprus NT coach i have those 2 players (6895165) and (8238533). There sum on IS/ID/RE is the same. 1 has +1 on the rebs the other +1 on ID. The 1st has 5 on SB, the 2nd 9. The 1st has much better 2ndries. So are those +4 on SB+the faster training speed worth the 44k+ salary of the 2nd player? In my opinion NO.

I can understand that some managers only cares to develop players (mistake for my point of view), but the game its not all about to create a monster, but to win. Creating a great player its just one (very important part, but not the only one) to succeed, except if your goal is a monster NT player who can play only there and not on actual competitive team...

In sum up, even if the elastic effect exist, i am not sure it its worth to make sacrifices of it. The benefit will not reward you. Its a possible be wrong, but again thats my opinion

Last edited by JohnnyB at 10/2/2010 7:32:24 AM

Steve Makis and Cippis teaches you well ;D

Yes, especially Steve. Cyprus community owe him a lot, in general.

Win comes 1st, everything else 2nd. So an other factor is the opportunity cost. A player with 13 OD and nothing else in my eyes will not be as useful as a player with more balanced training.

a OD only guard could be still effective, i know a team who run this strategy quite succesful in div 2 with low salarys an a inside attack strategy ;)

But you are right about winning, especially because OD/passing are probadly the skill who you should train at last for the elastic effect(at least if the theory is right) and driving is the skill who you should train first. I personally rate driving pretty low, but a driving only player who could vcreate his own shot but rarely could finish a open one is probadly worthless in the eye of the most managers. And for optional training you had to train the guards alot on Point Guard position, so normaly i recommend training OD(imho the most powerful guard skill) and Passing(which you need when you play him at PG) first.

I dont wanna dissappoint anyone but on Spain lot of outside players have been trained on that way since season 3-5... but training 1vs1 instead of handling.

Last edited by Marot at 10/2/2010 7:28:33 PM