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Big drop in attendance

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From: Mr. Hyde

This Post:
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203621.71 in reply to 203621.18
Date: 12/4/2011 4:56:40 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
4545
Well I looked at your situation. As we all know, winning away has a BIG impact on your next home game income. We can clear that PL fuzz right away. We all know that PL get's played in arcade mode. That also means no entu is put into it. One special thing to notice is: when winning by walkover in PL, the minute distribution does not equal to normal league/cup game. So they are somewhat different systems. What comes to the PL attendance, you conveniently "forgot" to mention those 2 games were semifinal and final of that PL. Obviously those attendances should be higher than your "normal".
Looking at your schedule and arena attendance it was normally a bit below 17k. You lost in the cup (in the 1-st round), it does not matter to who you lose, it matters when you lose. The yearly runner up was pushed out of the cup early. You compensated this by keeping your league record clean. You even managed to win your televised game against your rival. The fans were thinking is this really the year Kitakyushu is going for the championship. With some luck in the fan survey (we all know it's a bit random there aswell) you managed to produce unbelievable +2000 crowd on your next home game. When you visited Sharman, you were brought back down to earth. This produced (with perhaps some unluck) a bad enough fan survey + the effects of falling out of the cup early were evident + your next opponent home was a lousy team. Obviously you took a hit, that was suitable to your current situation.
Perhaps this loss, made your fans realise again, that your team is a yearly semifinal team (yet again) with no cup success this year.
NB! There was also a price change date before the last match. Perhaps you meddled with the prices or did not notice you had changed them before and are keeping this info from us aswell. Once again: with away loss comes a huge drop in bleacher attendance and a loss in lower tier seat attendance.
NB!2 Winners don't whine...

Finally... A voice of reason :-)

This Post:
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203621.72 in reply to 203621.30
Date: 12/4/2011 5:21:06 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
4545
Current attendance system is not perfect, but it denies top teams the luxury to lose a game here or there and still get away with it, so they have to give their best more often than they would like.

I usually agree with you, but this time I must disagree.
Just look at this guy's attendance http://www.buzzerbeater.com/team/22777/arena.aspx, and then look at his current record as well as his records in the past two seasons. What do you think? Still think that there is nothing wrong with the way attendance is calculated? That "top teams have to give their best more often than not"?
If there were any logic in this game, this guy - with the way his team is run right now - shouldn't have more than 10 fans per game, and even that is too much.
I understand your motivation, but there is a lot of things here - not just the attendance formula - that are not working as they should.

EDIT:
By the way, does anyone care to explain how the guy from my example above manages to have such a high attendance?

Last edited by Mr. Hyde at 12/4/2011 5:38:17 AM

This Post:
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203621.73 in reply to 203621.72
Date: 12/4/2011 6:09:37 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
394394
His attendance is so high, because he's in D.II charging D.IV prices. The lower the prices the less fluxuation you have.

This Post:
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203621.74 in reply to 203621.73
Date: 12/4/2011 7:08:32 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
4545
So, in other words, what you're saying here is that an imaginary item, which once used to cost a lot of money, but nowadays has close to no practical use (e.g. Dial-up internet connection) will continue to sell, and sell good, mind you, as long as it is offered to people at affordable price?
I'm just kidding :-) but you do understand my point(?) you don't get that kind of attendance, week after week after week, just because entrance is offered to you at discounted price - bad product is a bad product. It has always been that way and it will always be.
EDIT:
I appreciate your input, of course, but taking that guy's win-lose record, he should never ever sell out his 20K arena, his prices being discounted or not, is what my point is, I guess.

Last edited by Mr. Hyde at 12/4/2011 7:16:37 AM

This Post:
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203621.75 in reply to 203621.74
Date: 12/4/2011 12:08:11 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
394394
Why does how man seats he sells matter. What should matter is gate revenue. going into the game he was 3-5, you were 2-6. He's gate revenue was 291K, your last home game was 283k. He made 8k more then you. But if you had had more bleachers and lower tier, its quite possible you could have grossed more.

Are we going to talk actual attendance or gate revenue, the two are not the same.

Edit - he didn't sell out all of his bleachers or lower level, you on the other hand did, at more expensive prices. Yet going in, he had 1 more game, and his most recent league game. 8k more isn't astronomical.

additional edit - I know that more people care about professional teams, then they do collegiate teams, then minor league teams, then high school teams, then peewee games. My point is given the choice, more people would spend less to see better competition.

Last edited by WFUnDina at 12/4/2011 12:14:02 PM

This Post:
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203621.76 in reply to 203621.74
Date: 12/4/2011 12:24:13 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
394394
So I guess when the Sixers and Wizzards are having bad seasons, and they put the upper deck up at 10$ (yes they do it, I know cause the email the crap out of me) . They don't sell more tickets? They still have to sell twice as many to make the same revenue, though. Just like here.

This Post:
11
203621.77 in reply to 203621.74
Date: 12/4/2011 1:08:28 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
952952
just because entrance is offered to you at discounted price - bad product is a bad product


Haha, sorry, had a laugh here... O know this game and real world doesn't correlate well, but your sentence can bring the two "worlds" together. How many bad products (cars, clothes, food, you name it) sell because they are cheap? A LOT. So reality applies really well here ;)

This Post:
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203621.78 in reply to 203621.76
Date: 12/4/2011 7:00:03 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
4545
Don't get me wrong, I understand everything you're saying, and for what it's worth, it all makes sense, too, but we're talking about team who tanks his games for second season straight now, and yet he still manages to fill his arena - that is a "bit" different than any of the examples you pulled out, you'll have to agree.
Again, my whole point was that current attendance formula is not working to the best interest of BB community and that therefore it should be revised. I guess you disagree, and that is fine.

This Post:
11
203621.79 in reply to 203621.78
Date: 12/4/2011 7:13:44 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
394394
Oh, okay. I didn't get that was your point, you were trying to make. Agree tanking needs to be addressed.

This Post:
11
203621.80 in reply to 203621.72
Date: 12/4/2011 7:36:39 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
147147
Current attendance system is not perfect, but it denies top teams the luxury to lose a game here or there and still get away with it, so they have to give their best more often than they would like.

I usually agree with you, but this time I must disagree.
Just look at this guy's attendance (http://www.buzzerbeater.com/team/22777/arena.aspx), and then look at his current record as well as his records in the past two seasons. What do you think? Still think that there is nothing wrong with the way attendance is calculated? That "top teams have to give their best more often than not"?
If there were any logic in this game, this guy - with the way his team is run right now - shouldn't have more than 10 fans per game, and even that is too much.


Edju's team has finished 5th in your league each of the last two seasons, with a combined 25-19 record and positive PD. When you consider that he has D5 arena prices, it's not surprising that his arena is close to selling out.

What you should be upset about is Heathcoatmen's arena. 6 straight walkovers, high arena prices, and he's still selling a lot of tickets.

I think we can all agree that true tanking teams should receive little to no arena revenue, but your frustration over arena income seems misplaced and incorrect.


This Post:
00
203621.81 in reply to 203621.77
Date: 12/4/2011 7:59:27 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
4545
just because entrance is offered to you at discounted price - bad product is a bad product


Haha, sorry, had a laugh here... :) O know this game and real world doesn't correlate well, but your sentence can bring the two "worlds" together. How many bad products (cars, clothes, food, you name it) sell because they are cheap? A LOT. So reality applies really well here ;)

Well, I guess I didn't really do myself any favors by using that particular analogy ("good product, bad product") but um, I think you took that completely out of context.
What I said ("you don't get that kind of attendance, week after week after week, just because entrance is offered to you at discounted price - bad product is a bad product. It has always been that way and it will always be.") and what you took out of it ("just because entrance is offered to you at discounted price - bad product is a bad product") don't really communicate the same thing, don't you think?
A team that tanks his games for a second season straight, intentionally misses playoffs, and more often than not plays TIE with filling only 3 scrubs to start the game, should not average well over 15K people in attendance per game. Just because he is "D.II charging D.IV prices" (to quote our friend WFUnDina) doesn't justify that. In that sense, no matter what, "a bad product will always be a bad product". That is what I meant, and in an indirect way, that is what I said, too. Now, if you didn't take my words out of context, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to get across that point.
Now, that been said, I know what you meant in your reply. Unfortunately - and this is more unfortunate for them than for anyone else - there will always be idiots who spend their money on worthless things just on account that the thing is offered at their price range, but once again, that has nothing to do with what I wanted to say in my post. You wouldn't buy, say, a $150 chrome treadmill for snails - if there were such a thing - just on account that product, at the time of its release, was originally selling for $1500, now wouldn't you?
And just for the record, America is full of $1 stores, you know why(?) because none of those items they store in there can sell for more than that. So, yeah, you can say that people will go there and shop, but as hard it's to make sense even out of that - I believe there is no need for me to use that snail treadmill example again - it is not the same to go out and waste $1 on something that you don't need and, in our BB example, go and waste $800 on VIP seat for the game that will not even be played. Or you maybe disagree?

Last edited by Mr. Hyde at 12/4/2011 8:26:08 PM

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