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So as someone who follows the European tournament closer than me, is Ceska best team in Europe or are they not in your opinion? You said yourself that the best team always wins, and HCA doesn't matter. You tell me.

Does Ceska typically get 14 Outside Defense and 13 Inside Defense ratings? Is that typical for a NT?

I don't know how much you are ironic and which way. Assuming same groups, same tactics and same approach by teams (i.e. just give HCA away and recalculate it) the overall result will probably be the same with lesser marign in score. The other aspect of HCA is that puts you among favourites and some teams then naturally prefer to accept loss while saving enthusiasm for other games at least in round robin. In quaterfinals group, not so much, those groups are usually divided based on prior enthusiasm management wen some teams spend their enthusiasm just to advance from round robin and call it a season (nothing against it, that's often right thing to do). Those things may be different if continental champinships would be played on neutral ground but we can't simulate that - o nthe other hand right to host is ahrd earned through consolation tournament the season before especially in case Europe federation. So discrading this I think there is a good chance results (albeit not score) would be pretty much the same. It is not like those wins where one possesion games.

Ratings doesn't matter.

My point was that Slovensko being the host while the sentence I quoted being published is quite strange especially when Slovensko host u21 continental championship as well - after BBs screw the handling of u21 consolation finals possibly costing them the win.

I understand you are from Ceska and feel the need to defend your championship, thats the same way Poland felt when this suggestion was made. I want to make the point that this suggestion is NOT an attack on any countries accomplishments. I am happy for Ceska that they made the Worlds and won their first trophy. No one is taking that away from you. Congrats! Again this is not about Poland or Ceska or anyone in particular, its about having a fun, competitive Worlds. I was using Ceska as an example to prove that this suggestion is a good one.

The point of the suggestion is that HCA is too much of an advantage for any good team to have in the Worlds. I think its borderline absurd to disagree with that. NTs do not get 14 ratings on defense when using man to man defense, its impossible without HCA. Even with maxiumum enthusiasm and peak game shape, you would have to have players with not just 20 (legendary) defense skills, but more like 22-23 to achieve those ratings.

We are nothing like Poland:-)

I agree there should be no HCA in the worlds moreover randomly awarded. However HCA per se wasn't the reason we won.

However my point about rating is valid, those don't tell you the story of the game and are misleading. Actual preformance and matchups win games. Not ratings. Look at this one (16698)

Edit: There is no need to defend the title. If we won because of that advantage we are not to be blamed for cause we earned it at first place. We took the hard road which is hopefully starting to paying off. No monsters like your NT has.-)

Last edited by docend24 at 11/2/2011 5:10:17 PM

Monsters? We've got Bronson I guess. We aren't the ones known for monsters, if we are talking about big guys. In the S16 Worlds we were probably the only team without a 300k salary big guy out of the final group.

I'm glad we agree that HCA should not be randomly awarded and futhermore the point of the suggestion is that HCA shouldn't be awarded to anyone in the Worlds at all, unless they are a very weak team relative to the others (like Senegal in the U21 Worlds). I see from your previous posts that we agree on this as well.

Again I'm not blaming you, I congratulate you on the Europe championship, its a great achievement in a very very competitive tournament, and you did it without any monsters ;) This is a general suggestion, but unfortunately we have to use examples to prove the suggestion is valid.

Last edited by jfarb at 11/2/2011 5:32:24 PM

yeah hca plays a big role, and i don't like it that much even when i proftate from it in the "old" days. Even when we had properly the best team at that moment, it would have been a bigger succes if we had won it without a random advantage we got.

first i agree that czeska win no for HCA, but giving an option to jfarb i ask marot and docend the same question from the other side

could czeska, possibly being the best NT team now, have lost this tournament if HCA had been for poland, spain or italy?

One point is, without the HCA thus winning consolation tournament season before , we wouldn't be in Pot 1 and had far more tougher opostion being placed based on our NT ranking. Other teams in round robin group would probably try harder aginst us as we wouldn't be a top team of our group.

Putting that aside, having the same group A, we would probably advance maybe handling enthusiasm more cautiously depending on situation in the group - I am not in rwystyrk head to guess that. If a top team (whatever it is) would have HCA, we would be doomed but should still qualify to world cup qualification and maybe continental playoffs - depending on teams in quaterfinl group whether it would involved the host or not etc. - teams would perceive distribution of power in that group their way and make decision upon that. The system is quite allright, you are eithe playing world cup or if you don't you have something to compete for (the HCA) and won't play meaningless games. If you play only 6 games prior consolation tournament playoffs (cause WC failed WC qualification), it hurts but you still have a shot at it. Moreover a team outside of continental top 6 of last cycle is probable to win HCA, not a powerhouse, and if it turns out that it was a too big advantage for them, they won't get next time as thier participating in WC would prevent that and rankings would reflect that putting them in higher pot so kind of equilibrum would be achieved again.

HCA in continentals works like elevator strenghtening your chances to do some damage nad urging you to rather compete now than primarily build for future. With limited pool of users those thngs are vital options to get better position on pecking order - somewhat weaker draws make better results thus keeping you highly ranked and so on.

And of course oone more thing - we didn't eperince any injury mayhem, that would hinder any team a bit. If I am not mistaken only Urbánek (younger and more promising Hána .-) ) missed the first game agaist Spain and then next one(s) more or less because of game shape.

OT: Use Czechia, Czech Rep.(ublic) or ČR, Česko - Česká is just adjective meaningCzech ; but we got used to it on BB I guess :-)

I don't do the scouting. Yup I spotted Bronson too.

Funny enough Hána was once considered a monster. I (and few others) pushed rwystyrk to get him on NT when very fishy bid on him appeared clearly with the intent to fire him for good and thus knock him of use (back then when it was still possible) stating at worst he will be for no use later, but at least we would keep him as a unique monster option (he was way ahead other ortodoxly trained big men at that moment). That fishy team put him on TL ASAP and we got him under our wings.

Hana is awesome, idk how you all pulled off training someone like that, but he's very unique

You already know the answer to that question. Of course they would've lost if Poland, Spain or Italy would've had HCA. That being said, as docend pointed out, they earned HCA for the continentals by their performance in the consolation tournament. I'm fine with them having that significant advantage in the continentals. I don't think anyone should have that advantage in the Worlds, otherwise we are basically handing out Worlds golds before the season begins.