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Outside attack too strong ?

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From: JohnnyB

To: RiP
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125704.76 in reply to 125704.75
Date: 1/2/2010 4:25:34 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
343343
Well u r right about that but they didnt take on there considerations when they changed the value of the guards and how diminished the role of the big men as a main options on scoring. I love all around players but is much much easier to find a complete guard than a complete C, and if u find one then u have to sell u r half team to buy him. Thats why more and more teams using outside attacks than inside, with big men being just role players.

Big changes on the training its hard to be made for sure, but again what is happening right now its not the ideal either.

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125704.78 in reply to 125704.77
Date: 1/2/2010 4:38:53 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
225225
I agree with you on that. It seems a lot of people are still denying that outside players have an enormous advantage over inside players in the new GE. They're constantly giving the same old offensive flow argument even after they've been given examples where flow was currently not the issue.

The problem is there aren't too many example to show, and this has done little to support your point.

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
From: JohnnyB

To: RiP
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125704.79 in reply to 125704.77
Date: 1/2/2010 4:47:20 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
343343
Well explain me then what happened on my game against Gold Towers. Why my star SG went 0-10? etc. For got sake i played run and gun against team who where playing 2-3 zone and my guards had terrible shooting. Someone gave a game that 1 team played LI and the other 1-3-1 and still lost.

About the training. I am arguing for the fact that when u train big men then u can train only 4 skills without put them out of there positions. The guards have 7. Does that sounds fair to you? Actually u can have a great guard with 40k salary. To have a great big man u need 100k+. Thats why am asking for some tweaking, or more balance guards/bigs

From: 7ton

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125704.80 in reply to 125704.79
Date: 1/2/2010 5:28:40 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
4545
Well explain me then what happened on my game against Gold Towers. Why my star SG went 0-10?

Do you think your offensive flow is too low at your level? And honestly what do you expect if your outside scoring was average (med) against OD of strong (low) and your SG couldn't pass to someone else but forced to shoot?

Last edited by 7ton at 1/2/2010 5:30:17 AM

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125704.81 in reply to 125704.69
Date: 1/2/2010 5:37:16 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
The long debate stems from the fact that Shotblocking was less useful before the most recent slew of game engine changes. And since people still seem to refuse to train it, it's hard to make an accurate


maybe that could be point of the fact that the player who have it, don't "use" it.

Or maybe people have unrealistic expectations about it. I don't know.


my expectations would be that this skill is rth the money you pay for it - else i wouldn't pay for it and don't train it like most managers do.

From: JohnnyB

To: 7ton
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125704.82 in reply to 125704.80
Date: 1/2/2010 5:46:52 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
343343
1st i was facing the best team in CBBA and his offensive flow wasnt that better either. So even if for a div 1 team i am on par with the other teams of my division.

Passing actually wasnt an issue for my SG. He had 6 assists. Game high. My problem is why a SG with 70k salary went 0-10? Ok Atmatzidis is better than him, but not by much. Also my strong med failed against respectable high

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125704.83 in reply to 125704.81
Date: 1/2/2010 6:17:17 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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my expectations would be that this skill is rth the money you pay for it - else i wouldn't pay for it and don't train it like most managers do.

I agree, though my impression is that people only look at the number of blocked shots per game, and conclude it's not sufficient to justify training shotblocking. As Charles pointed out, they seem to ignore the fact that great shotblockers, especially at the inside positions, tend to disrupt a significant number of shots by rotating over. Disrupted shots are almost universally a miss (they seem to have a very, very low chance of going in).

And of course, if you don't train SB up, it's not going to work -- this is a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.


"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
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125704.84 in reply to 125704.83
Date: 1/2/2010 6:19:05 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
but thwe number of real blocks, tend me to the point that you have to train it for guards not for centers, and the german 14+ Sb center in the bundesliga ain't a big blocker and in total number 8-10 seems to be tcomparable or mean high skills just more altered shots i don't think so.

the difference in ID 8 to 14 is much bigger ;) You pointed out, that ID 13 is a zero rating against IS 15, if i remember right.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 1/2/2010 6:20:01 AM

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125704.85 in reply to 125704.84
Date: 1/2/2010 6:24:12 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
225225
but thwe number of real blocks, tend me to the point that you have to train it for guards not for centers, and the german 14+ Sb center in the bundesliga ain't a big blocker and in total number 8-10 seems to be tcomparable or mean high skills just more altered shots i don't think so.

the difference in ID 8 to 14 is much bigger ;) You pointed out, that ID 13 is a zero rating against IS 15, if i remember right.

How much is "not a big blocker"? I don't know which player you're talking about, but in pro basketball terms, a really great shot blockers will block 3 shots a game. Good shot blockers will probably block about 2, and average shotblocking big men will probably block about 1.

It would be great if someone kept count of alterations, but regretfully you have to watch your games and take notes for this.

Also, consider that if people are playing outside shooting tactics, centers will get less blocks, since most shots are mid- and long-range jumpers. Given that the overall poor develoment of guards in the game precludes teams from playing inside tactics with great success, it's quite possible that this is part of the problem

Last edited by GM-kozlodoev at 1/2/2010 6:24:36 AM

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
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125704.86 in reply to 125704.85
Date: 1/2/2010 6:29:24 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
How much is "not a big blocker"?


i take those numbers in comüparision to the other centers with lower blocking lkike i said in the text before ;) He normally is betwenn 1,5-2 blocks, over 35min, which is below 3. uin the beginning of the change i track some more goofd blockers, and all of them are weak, in comparision to player with the half skill of them.

It would be great if someone kept count of alterations, but regretfully you have to watch your games and take notes for this.


And was the text for alteration?

Also, consider that if people are playing outside shooting tactics, centers will get less blocks, since most shots are mid- and long-range jumpers. Given that the overall poor develoment of guards in the game precludes teams from playing inside tactics with great success, it's quite possible that this is part of the problem


guards with blocking 7, get a lo of blocks, so they doesn't seem to be affected from this ;)

Edit: A info the numbers of blocks get reduced dramatically with the SB change, even if Forrest say they got increased. And good blocker on top level are very rare in this game, and those counts also for players with much higher sb then other skills.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 1/2/2010 6:32:28 AM

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