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Outside attack too strong ?

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125704.78 in reply to 125704.77
Date: 1/2/2010 4:38:53 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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I agree with you on that. It seems a lot of people are still denying that outside players have an enormous advantage over inside players in the new GE. They're constantly giving the same old offensive flow argument even after they've been given examples where flow was currently not the issue.

The problem is there aren't too many example to show, and this has done little to support your point.

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
From: JohnnyB

To: RiP
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125704.79 in reply to 125704.77
Date: 1/2/2010 4:47:20 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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Well explain me then what happened on my game against Gold Towers. Why my star SG went 0-10? etc. For got sake i played run and gun against team who where playing 2-3 zone and my guards had terrible shooting. Someone gave a game that 1 team played LI and the other 1-3-1 and still lost.

About the training. I am arguing for the fact that when u train big men then u can train only 4 skills without put them out of there positions. The guards have 7. Does that sounds fair to you? Actually u can have a great guard with 40k salary. To have a great big man u need 100k+. Thats why am asking for some tweaking, or more balance guards/bigs

From: 7ton

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125704.80 in reply to 125704.79
Date: 1/2/2010 5:28:40 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
4545
Well explain me then what happened on my game against Gold Towers. Why my star SG went 0-10?

Do you think your offensive flow is too low at your level? And honestly what do you expect if your outside scoring was average (med) against OD of strong (low) and your SG couldn't pass to someone else but forced to shoot?

Last edited by 7ton at 1/2/2010 5:30:17 AM

This Post:
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125704.81 in reply to 125704.69
Date: 1/2/2010 5:37:16 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
The long debate stems from the fact that Shotblocking was less useful before the most recent slew of game engine changes. And since people still seem to refuse to train it, it's hard to make an accurate


maybe that could be point of the fact that the player who have it, don't "use" it.

Or maybe people have unrealistic expectations about it. I don't know.


my expectations would be that this skill is rth the money you pay for it - else i wouldn't pay for it and don't train it like most managers do.

From: JohnnyB

To: 7ton
This Post:
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125704.82 in reply to 125704.80
Date: 1/2/2010 5:46:52 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
343343
1st i was facing the best team in CBBA and his offensive flow wasnt that better either. So even if for a div 1 team i am on par with the other teams of my division.

Passing actually wasnt an issue for my SG. He had 6 assists. Game high. My problem is why a SG with 70k salary went 0-10? Ok Atmatzidis is better than him, but not by much. Also my strong med failed against respectable high

This Post:
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125704.83 in reply to 125704.81
Date: 1/2/2010 6:17:17 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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my expectations would be that this skill is rth the money you pay for it - else i wouldn't pay for it and don't train it like most managers do.

I agree, though my impression is that people only look at the number of blocked shots per game, and conclude it's not sufficient to justify training shotblocking. As Charles pointed out, they seem to ignore the fact that great shotblockers, especially at the inside positions, tend to disrupt a significant number of shots by rotating over. Disrupted shots are almost universally a miss (they seem to have a very, very low chance of going in).

And of course, if you don't train SB up, it's not going to work -- this is a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.


"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
This Post:
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125704.84 in reply to 125704.83
Date: 1/2/2010 6:19:05 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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but thwe number of real blocks, tend me to the point that you have to train it for guards not for centers, and the german 14+ Sb center in the bundesliga ain't a big blocker and in total number 8-10 seems to be tcomparable or mean high skills just more altered shots i don't think so.

the difference in ID 8 to 14 is much bigger ;) You pointed out, that ID 13 is a zero rating against IS 15, if i remember right.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 1/2/2010 6:20:01 AM

This Post:
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125704.85 in reply to 125704.84
Date: 1/2/2010 6:24:12 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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but thwe number of real blocks, tend me to the point that you have to train it for guards not for centers, and the german 14+ Sb center in the bundesliga ain't a big blocker and in total number 8-10 seems to be tcomparable or mean high skills just more altered shots i don't think so.

the difference in ID 8 to 14 is much bigger ;) You pointed out, that ID 13 is a zero rating against IS 15, if i remember right.

How much is "not a big blocker"? I don't know which player you're talking about, but in pro basketball terms, a really great shot blockers will block 3 shots a game. Good shot blockers will probably block about 2, and average shotblocking big men will probably block about 1.

It would be great if someone kept count of alterations, but regretfully you have to watch your games and take notes for this.

Also, consider that if people are playing outside shooting tactics, centers will get less blocks, since most shots are mid- and long-range jumpers. Given that the overall poor develoment of guards in the game precludes teams from playing inside tactics with great success, it's quite possible that this is part of the problem

Last edited by GM-kozlodoev at 1/2/2010 6:24:36 AM

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
This Post:
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125704.86 in reply to 125704.85
Date: 1/2/2010 6:29:24 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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How much is "not a big blocker"?


i take those numbers in comüparision to the other centers with lower blocking lkike i said in the text before ;) He normally is betwenn 1,5-2 blocks, over 35min, which is below 3. uin the beginning of the change i track some more goofd blockers, and all of them are weak, in comparision to player with the half skill of them.

It would be great if someone kept count of alterations, but regretfully you have to watch your games and take notes for this.


And was the text for alteration?

Also, consider that if people are playing outside shooting tactics, centers will get less blocks, since most shots are mid- and long-range jumpers. Given that the overall poor develoment of guards in the game precludes teams from playing inside tactics with great success, it's quite possible that this is part of the problem


guards with blocking 7, get a lo of blocks, so they doesn't seem to be affected from this ;)

Edit: A info the numbers of blocks get reduced dramatically with the SB change, even if Forrest say they got increased. And good blocker on top level are very rare in this game, and those counts also for players with much higher sb then other skills.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 1/2/2010 6:32:28 AM

This Post:
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125704.87 in reply to 125704.86
Date: 1/2/2010 6:33:50 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
225225
And was the text for alteration?

The English version of the text is "XXX rotates over to help defend the play".


guards with blocking 7, get a lo of blocks, so they doesn't seem to be affected from this ;)

Guards driving to the basket who have miserable inside shot will often get rejected by guards with respectable SB, that's true. Given that both IS and SB for guards are skills you don't really train (and are therefore respectable at best), respectable SB is relatively high.

This might or might not be an unfortunate side effect, though it likely has a rationalization. A respectable SB guard is someone like Dwyane Wade, who will probably swat most Jose Calderon ill-advised layup attempts in the fifth row, but won't be able to block Shaq when he's making a move to the basket.


Last edited by GM-kozlodoev at 1/2/2010 6:36:25 AM

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
This Post:
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125704.88 in reply to 125704.83
Date: 1/2/2010 6:37:30 AM
Freccia Azzurra
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my expectations would be that this skill is rth the money you pay for it - else i wouldn't pay for it and don't train it like most managers do.

I agree, though my impression is that people only look at the number of blocked shots per game, and conclude it's not sufficient to justify training shotblocking. As Charles pointed out, they seem to ignore the fact that great shotblockers, especially at the inside positions, tend to disrupt a significant number of shots by rotating over. Disrupted shots are almost universally a miss (they seem to have a very, very low chance of going in).

And of course, if you don't train SB up, it's not going to work -- this is a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.



I've an example of a guy that it was in my first roster, now he has 27yo and he was trained in SB till lvl 12 or 14 I don't remember exactly. Well, if you see the matches the % of shots scored by the opponent was similar to the other centers, ball losts the same, so at the end if you believe that SB is useful you can train all the players in that skills personally when I see a player with SB high on the market I prefer to stay away from him due to the fact that the salary has a penalty training this skill and once again I don't see any advantage in the number of shots blocked neither in the global box score.
Charles coudn't say that SB is an useless skill, don't you think?

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