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I would let that guy play only if the opponent was running an inside offense. Yes I would have to use outside offense myself but how is it so easy to defend? That guy with three times 19 in ID, SB and RB could stop world class centers and block the opponents guards driving to the hoop. In the offensive end he could pass the ball brilliantly and wouldnt be so bad at shooting himself from range for a big man. Of course my team would in that case need excellent outside offense guards too.
Atleast I dont believe that inside offense is a lot more difficult to defend than outside offense, instead theyre pretty equal.
A team with those big men you suggest could use both offenses yeah, but it would be crushed with LI as the opponents guards get easy lay ups game after another like everybody else in this days BBB...
rubbercube

You let a 66k big man play only against teams who play inside offense,and in that game you are forced to use an outside tactic that your adversary can easily defend?
Only 3 or 4 super-rich team in the world can afford to WASTE 66k/week on a player like that that can play maybe 1/3 of the games because of his big lacks in key skills...and you can't suggest a thing only because 3 teams in the world could SOMETIMES have little benefits from it
In addition to that,your hypotetical players can't be created,because training ID and RB you train IS too,and to reach 19 in ID and RB you bring your player to at least 3 IS with the conseqeunt growth in salary(and you should add the effect of cross-training too
And is impossible to build a player with such skills

PA, ID and SB 19
RB 14 and IS 1
JS 11, JR 13, DR 13, HN, 9
OD 5

to cover his deficiencies,because even if you could train him in IS,ID and REB to 19 level without raising IS too,and to do this you need to have a tall player;you don't have the time to train guard skills to that level with a so tall player

So basically,you are supporting your opinion using as argument things that can't realistically happen

You let a 66k big man play only against teams who play inside offense,and in that game you are forced to use an outside tactic that your adversary can easily defend?

Yes, I would play that guy basically ONLY against inside offense teams. But if I'd play in BBB (or NT games) that would mean, some 90% of all games! From the 32 team round 13 of the 16 winners used LI this year (not sure if it was exactly like that but just about).

And this I'd really like you to explain: How is my outside offense easy to defend if I have that guy on the court?

In addition to that,your hypotetical players can't be created,because training ID and RB you train IS too,and to reach 19 in ID and RB you bring your player to at least 3 IS with the conseqeunt growth in salary(and you should add the effect of cross-training too
And is impossible to build a player with such skills
to cover his deficiencies,because even if you could train him in IS,ID and REB to 19 level without raising IS too,and to do this you need to have a tall player;you don't have the time to train guard skills to that level with a so tall player

So basically,you are supporting your opinion using as argument things that can't realistically happen

There I agree about everything with you, but that is not an important thing. Yes, he couldn't have precisely those skills, but the idea is important: high ID, SB, PA and pretty high RB, JS, JR, DR, HN. And to train those guard skills, yes, it might be pretty slow, but with good starting skills I think its pretty much possible.

And I know I'm quite weak in this discussion, saying that SB is a great skill, because there isnt any real evidence to speak for that, but thats just what I believe in. :)
rubbercube

You let a 66k big man play only against teams who play inside offense,and in that game you are forced to use an outside tactic that your adversary can easily defend?

Yes, I would play that guy basically ONLY against inside offense teams. But if I'd play in BBB (or NT games) that would mean, some 90% of all games! From the 32 team round 13 of the 16 winners used LI this year (not sure if it was exactly like that but just about).

And this I'd really like you to explain: How is my outside offense easy to defend if I have that guy on the court?

11 JS isn't much more than what the actual top PF have.This player would suck against the big mans that plays in BBB,because these big mans have pretty high IS and many times they have good JS(8-9)too.And for a team that isn't playing in BBB or a team that is aiming to win the first division of a national championship,is just a waste to have such a player

In addition to that,your hypotetical players can't be created,because training ID and RB you train IS too,and to reach 19 in ID and RB you bring your player to at least 3 IS with the conseqeunt growth in salary(and you should add the effect of cross-training too
And is impossible to build a player with such skills
to cover his deficiencies,because even if you could train him in IS,ID and REB to 19 level without raising IS too,and to do this you need to have a tall player;you don't have the time to train guard skills to that level with a so tall player

So basically,you are supporting your opinion using as argument things that can't realistically happen

There I agree about everything with you, but that is not an important thing. Yes, he couldn't have precisely those skills, but the idea is important: high ID, SB, PA and pretty high RB, JS, JR, DR, HN. And to train those guard skills, yes, it might be pretty slow, but with good starting skills I think its pretty much possible.

If that player had lower PA,JS,JR,DR,HN would become useless also for an outside offence,so you would basically have a player that is useless with ANY offensive tactic,and is useless agaisnt ANY offensive tactic of your adversary that isn't an inside tactic.And,because it's impossible for a big man with 19 IS,ID and REB to have the guard skills to such an high level,your player with high SB become automatically useless

And I know I'm quite weak in this discussion, saying that SB is a great skill, because there isnt any real evidence to speak for that, but thats just what I believe in. :)

Maybe you should ask yourself why there aren't eveidences that says that SB is a great skill...maybe because evindences shows that SB is useless(worst salary/performance ratio)?


Last edited by Steve Karenn at 1/9/2012 10:42:09 AM

+1 for the summary and the realism of your post. =)

OK I don't really understand you and you perhaps arent understanding me. What is sure, we have different opinions about SB. I think there's no point arguing anymore, so I'll leave it here. No hard feelings :)
rubbercube

e: I argee with red's sum up (+1)

Last edited by rubbercube at 1/9/2012 1:53:24 PM

I understand you,but you aren't throwing any serious arguments to affirm that SB could be useful someway

I think I can sum this entire thread up:

1) People complain about not being able to stop LI
2) People complain that is all teams run, LI
3) It is known at this point SB is what stops LI driving shots, and helps against other inside shots
4) People then complain they have to pay too much for SB
5) Paying too much = it is not worth training somehow

Simply put, you cant have the best of all worlds. If you want to stop LI, make a sacrifice elsewhere and train SB. It is that simple. If you dont have SB, you will not stop LI more effectively than anyone else. It has already been shown that SB costs less than other inside skills. Make your decision to train SB or not, but dont complain about how hard it is to stop LI if you are not willing to train SB.

The problem here is that you can't stop LI beacuse 2-3 defense DON'T WORK,not because you need to train SB who is a waste of money.
This is a better sum,imho

Never had problems with playing a 2-3, and I like shotblocking..

Lately my top center played against a player which was kind of similar. The only difference was mine had only 8 shotblocking and his had 16. And guess what?, mine couldn't buy a bucket.

Just 4 fun, do you think that now-days squads will find it difficult to play against this kind of player:

Jump shot 17 Jump Range 15
Outside D 7 Handing 16
Driving 17 Passing 10
Inside S 7 Inside D 20
Rebounding 14 Shot Blocking 20
Stamina 10 Free Throws 10

which is projected as SF with 240k salary (bb salary calc).

Do you think he can help you win a major tournament?