BuzzerBeater Forums

Oh, okay. I didn't get that was your point, you were trying to make. Agree tanking needs to be addressed.

Current attendance system is not perfect, but it denies top teams the luxury to lose a game here or there and still get away with it, so they have to give their best more often than they would like.

I usually agree with you, but this time I must disagree.
Just look at this guy's attendance (http://www.buzzerbeater.com/team/22777/arena.aspx), and then look at his current record as well as his records in the past two seasons. What do you think? Still think that there is nothing wrong with the way attendance is calculated? That "top teams have to give their best more often than not"?
If there were any logic in this game, this guy - with the way his team is run right now - shouldn't have more than 10 fans per game, and even that is too much.

Edju's team has finished 5th in your league each of the last two seasons, with a combined 25-19 record and positive PD. When you consider that he has D5 arena prices, it's not surprising that his arena is close to selling out.

What you should be upset about is Heathcoatmen's arena. 6 straight walkovers, high arena prices, and he's still selling a lot of tickets.

I think we can all agree that true tanking teams should receive little to no arena revenue, but your frustration over arena income seems misplaced and incorrect.

just because entrance is offered to you at discounted price - bad product is a bad product

Haha, sorry, had a laugh here... :) O know this game and real world doesn't correlate well, but your sentence can bring the two "worlds" together. How many bad products (cars, clothes, food, you name it) sell because they are cheap? A LOT. So reality applies really well here ;)

Well, I guess I didn't really do myself any favors by using that particular analogy ("good product, bad product") but um, I think you took that completely out of context.
What I said ("you don't get that kind of attendance, week after week after week, just because entrance is offered to you at discounted price - bad product is a bad product. It has always been that way and it will always be.") and what you took out of it ("just because entrance is offered to you at discounted price - bad product is a bad product") don't really communicate the same thing, don't you think?
A team that tanks his games for a second season straight, intentionally misses playoffs, and more often than not plays TIE with filling only 3 scrubs to start the game, should not average well over 15K people in attendance per game. Just because he is "D.II charging D.IV prices" (to quote our friend WFUnDina) doesn't justify that. In that sense, no matter what, "a bad product will always be a bad product". That is what I meant, and in an indirect way, that is what I said, too. Now, if you didn't take my words out of context, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to get across that point.
Now, that been said, I know what you meant in your reply. Unfortunately - and this is more unfortunate for them than for anyone else - there will always be idiots who spend their money on worthless things just on account that the thing is offered at their price range, but once again, that has nothing to do with what I wanted to say in my post. You wouldn't buy, say, a $150 chrome treadmill for snails - if there were such a thing - just on account that product, at the time of its release, was originally selling for $1500, now wouldn't you?
And just for the record, America is full of $1 stores, you know why(?) because none of those items they store in there can sell for more than that. So, yeah, you can say that people will go there and shop, but as hard it's to make sense even out of that - I believe there is no need for me to use that snail treadmill example again - it is not the same to go out and waste $1 on something that you don't need and, in our BB example, go and waste $800 on VIP seat for the game that will not even be played. Or you maybe disagree?

Last edited by Mr. Hyde at 12/4/2011 8:26:08 PM

Current attendance system is not perfect, but it denies top teams the luxury to lose a game here or there and still get away with it, so they have to give their best more often than they would like.

I usually agree with you, but this time I must disagree.
Just look at this guy's attendance http://www.buzzerbeater.com/team/22777/arena.aspx, and then look at his current record as well as his records in the past two seasons. What do you think? Still think that there is nothing wrong with the way attendance is calculated? That "top teams have to give their best more often than not"?
If there were any logic in this game, this guy - with the way his team is run right now - shouldn't have more than 10 fans per game, and even that is too much.

Edju's team has finished 5th in your league each of the last two seasons, with a combined 25-19 record and positive PD. When you consider that he has D5 arena prices, it's not surprising that his arena is close to selling out.

What you should be upset about is Heathcoatmen's arena. 6 straight walkovers, high arena prices, and he's still selling a lot of tickets.

I think we can all agree that true tanking teams should receive little to no arena revenue, but your frustration over arena income seems misplaced and incorrect.

I'm actually not upset about neither of examples, so you got that completely wrong. I was just trying to contribute to ongoing discussion, and in that, I used Edju as an example, him being the last team I played against.
While Heatcoatmen's example is certainly more severe, and clearly better for sake of argument I was trying to make, I don't see Edju's case to be much different. I believe I already explained why is that in my previous posts, so no need to go there again. It is interesting, though, how you think that "true tanking teams should receive little to no arena revenue" and yet you find my observation "misplaced and incorrect".

It is interesting, though, how you think that "true tanking teams should receive little to no arena revenue" and yet you find my observation "misplaced and incorrect".

Tanking the last game of the season to ensure a 5th place finish does not mean a team is tanking. The implication of your post seemed to be that Edju tanked the previous season, which isn't true. This is where the "misplaced and incorrect" came from.

While Heatcoatmen's example is certainly more severe, and clearly better for sake of argument I was trying to make, I don't see Edju's case to be much different.

I see a big difference between 6 walkovers in a row, as Heathcoatmen has had, and one 100 point loss by Edju. There are plenty of professional sports teams that intentionally lose a game or two at the end of a season to ensure draft position or to guarantee an easier playoff matchup. Fans understand and don't react too harshly. A walkover in real life would cause a riot. I'm not quite sure why this is part of the game, nor do I understand why the opposing team is punished by not receiving the full minutes for training.


Last edited by Arthur Monay at 12/4/2011 8:39:28 PM

Believe me, Edju tanked more than just one game. Like, that is not even matter of debate. Everyone who cares to check can easily see that the man has been tanking on regular basis. And you must be really naive - or perhaps you're just Edju's real good friend, which would actually explain quite a few things - to believe that he finished 5th two seasons in a row by pure chance, or as you put it, by "tanking the last game of the season". But whatever, I'm not gonna waste my time trying to change your mind when you clearly have no interest in doing so.

There is another possibility - maybe those VIP sits were bought by season ticket holders and are filled every game no matter what?

Now, that is a possibility. Definitely. But still, how many season ticket holders you assert he has? 10K? 12K? 15K? Unlikely. But listen, we can do this all day long - you obviously think that BB is doing a great job in this respect - carrying that LA title, I would be surprised if it were different - and me on the other end - having no obligation to any sponsors - I think that this is just another thing that BB have failed at this season. Let's just leave it at that :-)

No, don't get me wrong; just because I'm LA and Mod, that doesn't mean I blindly follow whatever BBs are doing. It's not like they would can me if I criticize a bit, haha

I'm trying to find a rational reason for such fans' behaviour just for the sake of it and not to defend BB. Btw, in this season I have enough good players for playing 2 competitive games/week, so I chose to try to win all games on the road to gain good attendance. It helped, but not a lot. In the meanwhile, my merchandise was jumping up like mad, probably because I have a U21 player who always starts for U21 NT. But lately, I (intentionally) lost three games in a row, however I'm still in the cup. Do you want to see my merchandise from last four weeks?

47k
54k
61k
47k

I mean...what the heck? I can't believe such a drop in merch is possible and I criticize that despite being a LA. So maybe there is irrational reason also for this guy who gets max attendance despite tanking.

Some things are worth criticizing and some are not, I guess (for example the training delays). But before screaming "I got robbed!", I always try to find a rational reason for it...

I am suffering around 15% drop in both attendance and merchandise. Last week won borth games against higher ranked teams than i am and still merchandise droped from 31k to 26k.... and fans attendance from 6.2k to 4.9k in bleetchers, thats weird.

Last edited by Gajus Julijus Cezaris at 12/5/2011 10:04:27 AM