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Managing minutes

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264730.8 in reply to 264730.7
Date: 11/4/2014 1:32:19 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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Yuck, that is an interesting game; I think it is an outlier. However, it also reminds me of two other factors -- the relative game shape of the starter and back-up, and the closeness of the game. Closer games favor the starter, as in your example. Better game shape also favors the player with the better game shape. It is not a simple matter, with all these factors contributing, and for that reason one game is not enough to draw any conclusions from.

Good discussion.

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264730.9 in reply to 264730.8
Date: 11/4/2014 1:42:59 PM
Cassville Yuck
III.3
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Yuckville Cass
Extreme outlier, maybe and if I get more time today I can post more examples from across my league. Even my own games. DMI is a bigger indicator than strictly game shape in coaching rotations and the SG position of the game I mentioned is of most interest. I believe the stamina adjustment in relation to game shape tweeted the substitution patterns.

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264730.10 in reply to 264730.8
Date: 11/4/2014 4:27:53 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
Yuck, that is an interesting game; I think it is an outlier. However, it also reminds me of two other factors -- the relative game shape of the starter and back-up, and the closeness of the game. Closer games favor the starter, as in your example. Better game shape also favors the player with the better game shape. It is not a simple matter, with all these factors contributing, and for that reason one game is not enough to draw any conclusions from.

Good discussion.


It's definitely a good discussion.

I'll just add that Yuck and I have had this conversation before during matches and outside of them, and it's not an isolated case or an outlier here. BB-Marin has said he was going to be looking into the situation with substitutions and high stamina players, which is really about as good as news as I could hope for.

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264730.12 in reply to 264730.11
Date: 11/5/2014 9:31:20 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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This is one thing I'd like to say that probably hasn't been said before when people want complete control in managing minutes. What if, because of that freedom of minutes control leads to a 1 point loss which could have been prevented had the starters played an extra minute more? Would teams be happy if they keep losing by a point as long as their starters have their 33-34 minutes per game? I'm pretty sure there will be someone who will say "then make an option to keep starters in the game when the game's close". But if two teams have the same direct order, they'll eventually just go over the 40+ min mark anyway because they'll keep playing, then we're back at square one. I'm not saying that I'm against a better substitution pattern/minutes management because I'm all for it. It's just that not having a very well thought of change wouldn't be good for the game. It would be great to see people discussing this, throwing ideas, figure out what comes of it, see if those can be addressed, then repeat the process until people are satisfied.


My opinion on this has been that for each position, there should be an option for substitution pattern, one which lets the coach do whatever he thinks is best for winning, once which emphasizes the starters more (though still not a 48 minute guarantee), and one that emphasizes a rotation at the position. If making a decision that the game allows causes me to lose a game that would have otherwise been won, then that's unfortunate but deserved. I'd rather have the ability to have choices and consequences than have it be beyond my control entirely.

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264730.13 in reply to 264730.12
Date: 11/5/2014 1:10:43 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
370370
Actually, I suspect the substitution pattern is probably pretty delicate programming. It is already far ahead of some other aspects of the game, (like estimating the range that "the players most like him" sold for on the Transfer market, but that is another story altogether). I am still experimenting with the existing arrangement of substitution choices, and learning bit by bit.

There is already a substitution feature for "Garbage Time." I would like to see minor improvement on that, to avoid late game injuries in a game that is all but over. Something like "Pull Starters if down by ___ or more points with ___ minutes or less remaining" would be great for that.

If I understand Hrudey's suggestion, it calls for the ability to choose different substitution patterns for different positions, all in the same game. That could present interesting strategic options.

Here's another thought: something to link two players, like "always play X at PG and Y at SG together," or "never play A at PF and B at C together." This could be useful to make sure you always have at least one scorer at the guard positions, or never have two poor rebounders playing together, things like that. I have some defensive specialists that I like to spot against an opponent's best scorers, but too many of them at once causes a real drought in scoring for a while.

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264730.15 in reply to 264730.14
Date: 11/5/2014 3:39:53 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
370370
Actually, I suspect the substitution pattern is probably pretty delicate programming.


If we are talking about the 'stictly Follow Depth Chart' it shoiuld be very easy to implement.


But that's NOT all we're talking about, is it? Sure, they could program in some concrete, never-variable program with exact minutes as you describe, but even though it would be basketball 101 at its simplest, it still wouldn't be certain. We're talking about a lot more than that.

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264730.17 in reply to 264730.1
Date: 11/6/2014 1:27:03 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
419419
There is no point in trying to manage minutes, apart from training, since GS is bugged and totally relied on luck.

You can hit the GS training button and magic will happen.

You can even set your players play 96 minutes and, don't worry, they'll pop in GS as it's proved here: http://www.buzzerbeater.com/community/forum/read.aspx?thr...

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264730.18 in reply to 264730.17
Date: 11/6/2014 4:28:57 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
6161
I wouldn't say totally relied on luck, but it is bugged. My experience has been that, on average I'll get GS pops if they're in the 60-70 minute range. But I've had players with way too many/too few minutes get pops, and those on the 65 minute sweet spot drop. I realize age and stamina are variables, but anyone who plays 60-65 minutes shouldn't drop. There is definitely some random pops & drops thrown in every week. If I were a programmer, I would call it the new "Illness Feature!" Yes, your guard got 68 minutes, but it's cold & flu season, you know. And maybe your 96 minute dude is hitting the steroids.

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