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We need to talk about stamina

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This Post:
44
311439.8 in reply to 311439.1
Date: 8/16/2021 11:17:11 AM
Tampines Fusion
SBBL
Overall Posts Rated:
433433
The first thing that bothers me is that stamina is declining through time, wheter it be a 18 y.o. or a 38 y.o. veteran. This is unrealistic! IRL your stamina doesn't decline over time if you train (anything) or if you play games. The reality is quite the opposite - it improves!

Honestly I kinda share the same sentiment. How do draft players (can you imagine) have good basketball skills and 1 stamina? Imagine having go through organized basketball (and have the best skills in the draft class) while having atrocious stamina. How is that even possible?

Frankly speaking, I think instead of having the training court boost free throws, they should scrap it totally and replace it with stamina training. In reality, we haver a hall of famers who are bad in free throws (Shaq is one), and a handful of other current NBA players (Jakob Poeltl, Dwight Howard) who are bad in free throws as well. In fact, Dwight Howard claims he hits all his free throws in practice and suggests that it is more of a mental strength thing which can't really be solved by just shooting more free throws in training. But have you even seen any young NBA or G League player (or even NCAA player) who starts panting after a couple of runs?

In fact, manager games like Hattrick (whom I've always seen as the sister-game of BB since a lot of us joined BB thanks to the ads on Hattrick back in season 3) have made stamina something which is trained passively. Iirc you can select much many % you would like to train and it kinda affects your players game shape or something, can't remember too well because it's been years since I last played.

To make things worse, the new game engine has a bigger effect on stamina. Although it's meant to combat undersized rosters, but it heavily affects youth training, especially when the system made it possible to generate illogically low stamina players.

The third solution I have is that the players' stamina improves according to their minutes. I would say that stamina should only improve if the player hits 'golden minutes' (60-80) during the week and decline otherwise - much like game shape, but the stamina improvements would of course be smaller on weeekly basis and thus show themselves in the long run.

Honestly speaking, I dig this suggestion. This should actually be the best fit, as stamina training would most probably encourage undersized rosters even more (well, not that they training anything other than game shape and stamina I guess), so this should be the best solution which won't benefit undersized squads too much. If we replaced free throws bumps with stamina bumps in the training court, it might just encourage people to have less players, since they can have bonus stamina training anyway.

Another one I'd like to see implemented is a floor for stamina on draftees. Make it awful or inept at least. Atrocious and pitiful seems a bit too silly. This would go well with the golden minutes feature, as if you don't train your trainee within the golden minutes (eg maximize training for 48 minutes per week), it can still drop as usual, hence there will still be incentives for stamina training.

This Post:
00
311439.10 in reply to 311439.7
Date: 8/16/2021 11:41:07 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
202202
We're not talking about how/when to train stamina, we're talking about how awful the situation is and how to improve it and make BB greater and more realistic.

And as szewaa said, managers train skills even during "short weeks". Stamina is kinda a waste of time. If you have a bad roster, you end the season with 3 short weeks (the first week, the All-Star break and the final week). If you waste them on stamina, it shows in the long run.

This Post:
33
311439.11 in reply to 311439.10
Date: 8/16/2021 12:14:38 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
305305
If stamina is a waste of time, just don't train it.
If you feel the need to train stamina, that is because it is not a waste of time.

Do you want also a gym in the arena for shot blocking and jump range? Many people think they are also a waste of time... Why not a gym for every skill except the one you like to train?

From: Grabby

This Post:
55
311439.13 in reply to 311439.1
Date: 8/16/2021 12:36:33 PM
Blue Vikings
IV.24
Overall Posts Rated:
137137
Second Team:
Big Horn Sheep
I like stamina the way it is. It is consistent, gives value to certain players, and requires strategy when planning training. You can plan training around it or throw money at a nutritionist. This just sounds like a request to make it easier to ignore.

This Post:
22
311439.14 in reply to 311439.11
Date: 8/16/2021 12:37:10 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
202202
'A waste of time' in a sense that people know the players need it at a decent level, but don't want to waste time on it, because it's a passive skill and other skills are more valuable to train.
It was the same with free throws, but BB fixed it. It wasn't realistic that teams shot bellow 65% at the free throw line (although some teams are now shooting over 90% which is also unrealistic, but that's another topic). Same goes for stamina, as I already said few times: irl athletes don't have bad stamina. I don't see why BB can't fix stamina like they did free throws.

As I said, the other skills are more important to the game and their training should stay as it is.

I don't know what is bothering you with this topic?
Probably you gave away a lot of training weeks for training stamina and this change wouldn't be 'fair'. A lot of changes happened in the past and people did adjust to them. I would suggest that stamina would grow really slowly and pop once per season, maybe twice tops, regaedless which solution we choose. That way squads don't catch up with the others so quickly.

Last edited by KOMET123 at 8/16/2021 12:40:45 PM

This Post:
00
311439.15 in reply to 311439.14
Date: 8/17/2021 12:04:47 AM
Team Payabang
III.8
Overall Posts Rated:
217217
We have tried to suggest some time ago about something like this but in the form of new infrastructure and/or STA growth modifications... and would love to see this implementation... here is to quote some of them:


Or Rookies Gain STA from playing time than the usual Losing STA from Playing time... Heres some Qoutes from other threads that may help explain it:

(308847.8)

How about rewarding them instead to promote training efforts...

I think in real life... if you push the limits of the young athletic peaple you will help them develope their STA... what doest kill them makes them stronger... So Letting them play probably those under the age of 21 (or even older, whatever you see fit) should have a positive effect on their STA, not the other way around...


(308847.20)
PLayers that played very High minutes on their Developing years should increase their GS drop Resistance on their Prime and or make it natural for them to improve STA over time (Just like EXP does)...

Players that are not used to play high minutes from their Developing Years that have been forced to play High minutes in their Prime should not have that High GS drop resistance and should have a slight disadvantage against players described above...

and other situations the BB would see fit...

This Post:
66
311439.16 in reply to 311439.1
Date: 8/23/2021 6:27:32 PM
Woodbridge Wreckers
DBA Pro A
Overall Posts Rated:
13911391
Not realistic? Do you think it's realistic to NOT do any stamina (conditioning) training in a real sport? Do you think NBA players only train with basketball drills and don't hit the gym?

Just do your stamina training once a while and don't whine about it. Or just pony up some money for a sport Nutritionist (staff), then it won't drop either with a high enough lvl.

Last edited by Jeründerbar at 8/23/2021 6:28:15 PM

From: Fresh24
This Post:
33
311439.17 in reply to 311439.16
Date: 9/4/2021 3:50:56 PM
Syndicalists' BC
Naismith
Overall Posts Rated:
303303
We should care far more about game play, than about it being realistic. If there are reasons stamina doesn't work because of game play, then let's talk about that. I think the biggest thing with stamina continues to be the use of 5 very expensive star players at the top end of the game. Making it easier to train (by arena/staff/etc) doesn't really address that situation, unless you make it easier to train but have a lower cap on it. Similar to FT, change the distribution of the effects of the skill.