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Hopefully they have seen enough posts from the old-timers about how important it is not to make this a pay-for-advantages game. The only reason why I pay to be a Supporter here is because I support the notion of a really great game that doesn't let anyone pay to get boosts or for anything to help them, the benefits are all about the garnishing and enhanced user experience. If they would rather get their money from people paying for game bonuses, I'll stop playing this game in a second.

I hope you're both right!

Well, I did start a thread a about training needing a overhaul back in October... That's something I'd like fixed. I'm tired of searching for players in the TL and having to skim past the high TSP players with bloated HA/DR skill points driving up their TSP.
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Just out of curiosity, what do you feel is to much DR? I've always been under the impression that it's one of the more important sub skills in the sim?

As I mention in the post, I think they developed the game in a era when players like Kobe Bryant and Chris Paul were big stars. I actually don't think DR is so important in this game relative to HA, OD, JS, RB... My best teams actually had guards that excelled in PA, I think that had a big impact on FG% for the rest of the team and made my big men play better in LI and LP offenses. In my opinion, JS and DR get a lot more training that other skills since they are get the most skill pops for the team overall as a two-position training skills. RB would also get similar treatment except that the BB veterans know that high RB skill has an outsized impact on creating higher salaries and making payroll bloated. It seems to be that you if you search for players with a minimum of, say, 103 TSP, you'll find a high percentage of those players get to that number of TSP with an oversized amount of HA/DR skill points.

I read the thread that you started, chihorn. Some interesting ideas in there (and a bunch of silly ones and people talking past each other, because forums…)

It seems like there are a few problems people want to solve:
1. Overall skill inflation (there are still 30 players on the TL with 150+ TSP right now)
2. We have converged on basically one build with slight variations for PG-SF or even PF, at least for players at the top end.
3. That these players have 20+ HA and DR consistently
4. The IRL training time for a top tier player
5. The difficulty of training a younger player in higher leagues

Which are you most concerned with? It sounds like 2 & 3. I ask because they seem like they might all have different solutions and some might be in tension.

You got it right. Numbers 2 and 3 are, in my mind, evidence of a training system that needs to be shaken up, and a reason why the training aspect (and search for free agents) is getting... less interesting. I'd love to see the game capable of facilitating a greater variety of strategies, but if we've all figured out what training strategies are the more "TSP efficient", we're inevitably training very similar types of players so strategies are going to be very similar.

For example, I've always wanted to try to develop teams with great passing as a way of increasing shooting percentage without necessarily having JS/IS/JR freaks in my lineup, but training PA is a really pain in the rear since it's only one position training for maximum efficiency, so training up a few great passers is really hard to do, and it's also a skill that's hard to find an elite level in the TL relative to other skills.

It was a little frustrating with all of the posts in the thread that were like "you just want to make training easier". That's not the case, I just want the approach to training to change so that there is an opportunity for us to diversify the strategies, and think more about how players realistically would be trained (yes, there is a component of player training that happens in practice, not just game experience).

Thanks for reading through the thread and getting it.

Last edited by chihorn at 1/11/2025 10:21:09 PM

I agree with you on the problem. The fact that every player seems to be a version of
JS 20 JR 12
OD 20 HA 20
DR 20 PA 12
IS 20 ID 12
RB 7 SB 7
With a 2 points in JR, PA, or ID separating PG, SG, and SF is dull. Especially when PF is often this same build with a few points moved from JR and OD moved to ID and SB. It gets worse when players that exceed this tend to do it by pushing DR and HA to 22 or 23 and players that fall short tend to do it by keeping HA and DR at 20 and dropping other skills. I might be overstating it, but if you search for TSP 150+ you’ll see it.

I disagree about the solution, though. Training might contribute, but I don’t think it is the primary driver of the consistent build. The reason I end up building players like this too is the way salary and skill cap works. This build is basically at the point of convergence of PG, SG, SF, and PF salary and cap functions. For the same cost as 2 more PA points I can add two or more points to JS, HA, and DR, and basically more IS and ID to my PG. I don’t think we’ll see managers choose builds with different skill ratios until the salary and cap calculations change. The players below all have basically the same salary at 135k.
JS 20 JR 12
OD 20 HA 20
DR 20 PA 12
IS 12 ID 12
RB 5 SB 5

JS 20 JR 12
OD 20 HA 20
DR 20 PA 12
IS 20 ID 12
RB 5 SB 5

JS 16 JR 12
OD 20 HA 16
DR 16 PA 16
IS 12 ID 12
RB 5 SB 5

PA trains pretty fast and the out of position effort is higher of the IS on a PG or SG, but we see a lot more of the first two. Not every skill point is as valuable for performance, but it’s hard to trade 4 points of PA for 4 each in JS, HA, and DR, and the fact that 8 points of IS are basically free… breaking up 1v1 for forwards might move things around a little, but making training more flexible without changing the salary structure seems likely to mostly change the path to the same basic build.


Last edited by bmore at 1/12/2025 7:45:07 AM