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U21 National Team Debate Thread (thread closed)

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From: wozzvt

To: Coco
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74907.8 in reply to 74907.6
Date: 2/25/2009 7:21:18 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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At the same time, you were the one who got to call Harrell two seasons ago


This is a good example of why this isn't really an issue anymore. The best U21 PG is now likely around the #6 NT PG overall, for shooting guard it's #11 (which is actually the same player, excluding him the next best U21 SG is #30 overall), at SF it's #10, PF #10, and C is #11. So I really think it's a moot point. Sam Anderson is really the only U21 guy that might make the NT squad, unless they're looking for specialists, in which case Hank Vogel I suppose could be in play.

The point is really that there's far more the teams can do to work together than to be in competition with each other. I'd be interested in gathering opinions on experience, but I think that getting future NTers some experience boosts early on could be very valuable (this means making the team not the all-21 team, but finding ways to get some top 20 year olds, and maybe even the occasional 19 year onto the squad, even in end-of-the-bench roles).

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74907.12 in reply to 74907.10
Date: 2/25/2009 8:31:13 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
228228
I don't actually agree with that. experience gains from the NT are kinda small, unlike in hattrick. I've seen players who were NT starters for four seasons barely gain a level… let's face it, experience is just broken.


That may be true, but it's also true that the top experiences we have are all guys that have had extensive NT time. Now, it may take a long time to build up, and it's actual effect in games is an open question, but there's something there, and it's at least worth considering.

As for potential, I agree that's a problem. It's also in part due to the fact that most of the NT are guys who have been trained since before the potential system came into place. Finding these type of guys when they're 18 and trying to get them the best training possible is perhaps the most important thing the u21 coach could do at this point.

From: brian
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74907.13 in reply to 74907.12
Date: 2/25/2009 8:44:14 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
576576
Controversial question maybe, but, this is BB and the enthusiasm system is what it is so:

How would you handle mutual enthusiasm deal on the NT level? If you were offered a deal would you consider it? Would you consider offering deals at any point?

"Well, no ones gonna top that." - http://tinyurl.com/noigttt
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74907.15 in reply to 74907.7
Date: 2/25/2009 11:23:40 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
304304
more like harrell, serrano, marcum and faust.

there's no point in pretending it didn't happen — the junior nt had to take a backseat to the full nt interests, there's nothing weird about it, and it might probably happen again in the next term (the 21yo big men with potential are gonna rule the world right here right now).


Well, NT Worlds were more important than U21 qualifying to a degree.

This time around, U21 Worlds would have been more important than NT Americas Qualifying (which we breezed through).

The Worlds take priority.

It's not like we have to qualify out of Europe or anything.

NO ONE at this table ordered a rum & Coke
Charles: Penn has some good people
A CT? Really?
Any two will do
Any three for me
Any four will score
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From: wozzvt

This Post:
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74907.17 in reply to 74907.13
Date: 2/25/2009 3:52:43 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
228228
Yeah, it's part of the game, so I'd certainly consider it. I think Coco's answer pretty much nails it, frankly. The only thing I'd add is that there's about to be a big u21 coach turnover, and we often won't really know who's trustworthy for these things, so I'd tend to only accept in cases where I was planning to TIE anyway, or where I was already reasonably confident we'd be playing at the same level anyway and have enough history on the other coach to know he'll stick to it. A one-strike policy seems prudent here (if they've violated an offer with any other team, ever, it's not worth the risk). When it comes to knock out games/worlds/etc, I don't think it's worth the risk (again, unless you were planning to TIE anyway).

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