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I was talking about the NT, Lemon was teaching me how to train in general I think - I am doing my best to learn.

Even though his players aren't necessarily NT level, the remarks about training are still relevant. Teaching Vecx how to train though seems a little like me e-mailing Manuel Pellegrini and telling him how to coach. (He doesn't listen to me either.)

Personally I'd be happy if everyone with an English trainee mailed Vecx for a training plan, though he might not like that so much!

The workload wouldn't worry me to be fair. although 8 season plans may take a little longer to create and be even harder to follow rigidly ;)

I dunno, it works out quite well when you get to buy the pick of those players on the market five or six seasons later

Sorry slightly lost me there... Matti who?

This Matti (19933515), you know, the fella who (together with their backup SG-SF) kinda destroyed our NT while being guarded by the best English PF ever trained :p

9 more stat points on MacPhorich this season and you are up to Innes level ;)

You mean 9 pops in 7 weeks while not knowing the sublevels? Still very possible depending on what I train ;). When I bought him I gave up the chance to ever having him on my main team. I would not have bought the kid on my second team if he had MVP or HoF potential

His 3 trainees have 2 x superstar potential and 1 x per. allstar. So I assume you guys are talking about training players in general and not for the NT right?

Yes Astragoth, I did say only one of them has an outside shot if others, higher potential players, don't get there and depending what I decide to do with him. My reply was more to rebuke the arrogance of people who feel entitled to patronise others on the basis that you need to have English prospects in order to be able to speak or write on these forums. Also it was meant to show that you can also train 3 players out-of-position, if they have enough stamina. My main trainee very nearly made it into the Chinese U21 (I was asked to train specific skills to have him in but decided to train secondaries instead) where all the rest of the big men had 35k-60k initial salary. But of course he's not English: he didn't cost millionzz!!!

I was talking about the NT, Lemon was teaching me how to train in general I think

Bovine statements are bovine. You gave us a spiel about training here (264384.74) and it looked very patronising just because I said that there is people doing it just fine in D2 and that perhaps contradicted the absolute notion that you need to be in D3 in order to be able to do it (which I said here (264384.72), the post you replied to). Of course Chinese is not English, but I'm not sure how that makes me unqualified to post here.

In all this you did not even bother checking that 3 trainees were given minutes, not 2. Training 2 prospects out of position is very doable. It wasn't meant to teach anyone anyone anything, it was meant to clarify that oviously 3 isn't equal to 2 and that training 2 and competing is very possible in D2 as it is in D3 (I've done it last season training at least 5 times out of position and competing, Park is doing it training 3 guys and competing). So yeah, the notion that you have to demote to 3 and play bots in order to train is puzzling and unsupported by any evidence whatsover.

Teaching how to train though seems a little like me e-mailing Manuel Pellegrini and telling him how to coach. (He doesn't listen to me either.)

Well not sure the comparison fits: Pellegrini has some trophies to show for his ability to coach, doesn't he? Besides it was not my intention to teach anybody: I tried to argue that training 2 players is easy not only in D3 as it was claimed. The reasoning was not meant to be taken as the truth, but as an example of how it's possible to do it.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 12/3/2014 5:55:52 PM

Ah that matti, his shape was on point when ours was not, and at 31, top of his game. Hardly an even comparisson. No need to give Gully a hard time of it mate.

Oh and no patronizing intended, I am unsure as to how that has come across. If you have read patronization in any of my words they are read into, in disagreeing, I was not putting you down, there is no need to get personal please. I was under the impression we were talking about the merits of uninhibited D3 training as easier than trying to manage it at D2. Whist I did concede to you much earlier in the discussion that it was possible at D2 to 2 person train, I did recommend that it is easiest at D3 and even gave a training suggestion of how to progress whilst training and maintaining a competitive team.

Oh and no patronizing intended, I am unsure as to how that has come across. If you have read patronization in any of my words they are read into, in disagreeing, I was not putting you down, there is no need to get personal please

It came across with you asking at least 4 times (including a previous thread) who are my English trainees, as if only owning elite English trainees gives anyone a right to talk. It came across with you being dismissive of anything that does not fit your narrative and leveraging on the accomplishments of your 20 season career to demean other people's opinions. You know very well I've owned exactly 0 English players since the very beginning and until I find a bargain who is comparable to those you can find from other nations or I complete my arena, I will still own 0 English players. You spent over 2 million on trainees, I spent less than 350k for a trainee who would have cost me over 700k if he was English. With the extra 350k, I built the arena and over 4 seasons those 350k, turned into 950k just in extra gate receipts without accounting for further re-investments. With an extra million there is a lot of things you can do, including, as Tatatallfella pointed out, bidding on a more polished product.

I did recommend that it is easiest at D3 and even gave a training suggestion of how to progress whilst training and maintaining a competitive team.

This worked for you who had already 11-12 seasons as a manager behind you, but for younger managers there are 2 problems. First, they don't have the luxury of a maxed out arena. You can't compare your situation to someone who also still needs to expand and has lower revenues. Second, even though you managed to pull it off perfectly, credit to you, it does not mean you will be able to repeat this next time. There is no guarantee you can pull off a promotion whenever you like. If you have a slightly more challenging D3 (like D3.1-D3.6 or so), you might miss out and you can definitely miss out in D2. Yours is a valid plan which worked for you, but there is ground to say that from a risk and economy perspective, surviving in D2 might be actually a better and safer option than voluntarily demote.

No need to give Gully a hard time of it mate.

The stab was not aimed at Gully, clearly. When I said that some of our players came up short, nowhere I suggested he was somehow responsible for that. And if he, on his own, does feel responsible for it, he really shouldn't.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 12/3/2014 7:34:50 PM

i just genuinely dont know most of the good english players/prospects out there because i dont play against any of them but are there times when the NT is way short on quality? like simply not enough good prospects coming through?

I'm really not sure why you are so upset mate, you are reading waaaaay too much into stuff

the NT in the coming seasons is going to be increasingly short on guards, you will notice that both Tata and myself are very keen on picking up English players and we are both having to buy in non english guards because frankly there just arent enough.