BuzzerBeater Forums

Many have discussed tanking before so I won't start a new debate but I just want to say this: Tanking is a necessary part of this game in order to survive at the higher levels.

If this is true, then the game is flawed. It should be possible to survive in the higher leagues without tanking, so if it's not, there's a major problem with the game design.


Last edited by Matt1986 at 1/2/2013 2:57:31 AM

I'm not talking about 'surviving', Matt, but winning the championship. Or at least having the team that can do it.

Last season in my first stint in Div II I had, by the end of the season, a solid lineup. It was good enough to beat the Titans fairly. Then, in the SF, my best shooter played a bad game and I got the tactics wrong. I lost and the Titans went through to GF where they lost in a 3 series battle with Tigers.

My point is this: I could have said, "Shit, stuffed up the tactics, shooter had an offnight...next season will be different; I'll be right there next season.' The trouble is, that wouldn't have been the case. My lineup was good but it wasn't good enough to win the GF if it got there. So, how do I improve it?

OPTION 1. Buy and sell (hurts merch) to make a small weekly profit and hope that in four season's time I can use that accumalated wealth to add a final great player. that's fine but in the meantime, my players a re three seasons older, my trainees have become more expensive and I probably couldn't afford the salary of the player I am just about to add.

OPTION 2. Don't train rookies, keep older good players (sorry Naker) but still not make any profits. Of course, when I go to sell them I can't get shit for them as they are now 34, 35 and 36.

OPTION 3. Tank. Reduce player salaries to the floor, accumalate as much money as possible, build arena, train rookies, don't get relegated and then, if all goes well, use savings to create a better version of the team previously had.


Tell me why option 3 shouldn't exist?

I might just add this:

How many times do you see teams rent players at the finals to get that promotion, or at least try (sorry Hax.). If you go with option 1 and 2 and all goes well and somehow you make it to the GF, you likely face some rent-a-geriatric who crushes your dreams. Option 3 at least allows you to create the team that will be able to defend such a possibility.

Again, tell me why Option 3 shouldn't be allowed in this game? Remember, Matt, this is a game and not a real-life similation of Basketball.

Tanking should be an option, and a viable one. Even in RL teams do it (sorry to all those AFL Demons fans out there I know it is a touchy subject).

The problem with tanking in BB is that it is BY FAR the best option, and because so many teams do it it then forces other teams to do it as well to compete with them.

Take my case for example, I got very unlucky in my last ABBL season with a swathe of injuries (3 starters) in the middle of re-structuring my team. I fell a long way off the pace and looked destined to face WA IS A DUMP in relegation series who was in his second (or third) season of tanking and had far more cash than me because of his tanking. He could easily afford 3 x 300k centres, so my two options were 1) spend my remaining dollars and pray it was enough or 2) sell the bulk of my players when I would make the most from them and tank making a fortune.

Pretty easy decision really.

I'm not saying that option shouldn't be allowed, but it seems that it has become the 'optimal' strategy to be successful in this game. I very much doubt that the BBs originally set out to design a game that required a period of two or three seasons where a user needs to deliberately lose to accumulate money, before they can compete at the top level.

In a 'perfect' game, there should be a number of different strategies available for a user to be successful, but no one particular strategy should be significantly more powerful than the others, otherwise it quickly becomes the only way to play the game (and be successful). The strategy of tanking is too powerful at the moment, as you've described above.

I'd say there's a few different reasons for this, including the training system and current state of the transfer market. It's very difficult to make decent profits from training, especially considering that if you want to train more than three players at a time, your trainees will be of a lower skill set compared to your opponents. This essentially rules out training for profits, and as you've pointed out, how else are you supposed to make money and be competitive? It's no wonder that tanking is such an attractive proposition.

I also think that being able to buy players in immediately before finals/relegation games is part of the problem (as you mentioned). It seems a very easy fix would be to make it that a player has to be on your team by the All Star Game to be eligible to play in finals, but unfortunately I doubt it will ever happen.

I also think that being able to buy players in immediately before finals/relegation games is part of the problem (as you mentioned). It seems a very easy fix would be to make it that a player has to be on your team by the All Star Game to be eligible to play in finals, but unfortunately I doubt it will ever happen.

So many people, myself included, have suggested exactly this but the BB's are deaf to it. They seem to think it will kill the transfer market but don't believe it will fix a number of parts of the game (tanking/rent-a-players). Which is a shame because until these sorts of issues are fixed the game will never move on from being too much of a financial sim than a basketball sim

totally agree

ive never tanked & ive made the abbl 2 times now

but maybe i would have done better once there if i had done some tanking :P

Agreed.

I've heard the arguments about 'killing' the transfer market before, but let's be honest... the transfer market is pretty much dead anyway, I can't see this doing too much more damage.

As soon as you promote to II and above, the game turns into much more of a financial sim than what it really should, I agree with you on that too.

The other option would be to have a minimum contract for players purchased e.g. 8 weeks. So if you want to buy up before the finals, you can still do it, but you'll have to pay a minimum of 8 weeks salary for any new players you buy.

I think something needs to be done to change how this game is played, because at the moment it's less enjoyable than what it could be.

I think something needs to be done to change how this game is played, because at the moment it's less enjoyable than what it could be.

why do you think I'm tanking away in div 2, iwen, zazz, etc in div 4

Totally agree with the 8 week scenario, Matt. At the very least, as you mentioned, players need to 'qualify' to be able to play finals. Whether it's 2, 4, 6 or 8 weeks...it's a simple way of limiting the need to tank while ensuring that teams don'e lose Gfs on account of Rent-a-monsters! But, as we have all noted here (and plenty of times elsewhere) BB needs to at least trial it instead of ignoring it.

I guess there are different ways to play the game.

Some likes to train players and couldn't care less about winning championships or promoting.
Some just wants to win asap, trying to find the fastest possible route.
Some likes to play at a steady pace and are content just to hang around 5th.
And some just likes to make drunken remarks on the forums for shits and giggles.

All are valid playing styles and there is no right or wrong way to play the game as long as you still enjoy what you are doing.

Now in terms of strategy, that is just a matter of opinion. It is no secret that BB is more of a managing/finance game then a strategic one. LI/M2M seems to be way to go atm so go out there, save your money and build a team that can utilize LI/M2M the best.

The only strategic part of BB is working out your schedule to see who you want to use a CT against. And also how well you manage the random anomalies such as injuries, gameshape issues and unfavorable CUP draws.

There's no mention anywhere that BuzzerBeater is a financial simulation. This is from the home page when you first register...

BuzzerBeater is an online basketball simulation game that pits you against other managers across the planet. Play head-to-head against other challengers, employing strategic game play and statistical analysis. Go beyond fantasy basketball and run your own franchise.

Take your team to the top of your league. Then continue up the BuzzerBeater ranks to beat out managers from around the world. No excuses. No retreat. Just you and 42103 opponents who would like nothing better than to run you out of the gym.
Realistic basketball action. Play the most advanced basketball simulation and coaching AI ever released. Watch games live on a state-of-the-art viewer.
You're the manager. You pick the players, you train them, and you tell them how to play. Want a bigger arena? Build it. Want to draft a superstar? It's all about scouting. You make the decisions and you’re in charge!

BuzzerBeater never sleeps, so why should you? Sign up now to play against the greatest basketball managers in the world. And hey... it’s free!

Sure, managing your finances is an important part of 'running your own franchise', but it seems like the balance is heavily slanted towards financial management over basketball strategy/management, at the moment. That's not to say it can't change, but it's something that would require some action from the BBs for any changes to occur.

I'm not sure what other's opinions are, but it seems like there's very little interaction between the BBs and users. They're entitled to ignore the opinions etc of users if they want (it's their game after all), but if they're really serious about improving the game they definitely benefit from discussing various ideas with the community.