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Yeah but maybe you would not have tanking teams. And why would tankers want this to happen?

Is it possible that you and others commenting on this thread have some vested interest and a personal agenda in this since you're not a stranger to tanking?

Let put it out there so everyone understands what you're saying. You want people to have to tank in order to:
a) train without worries of having to try and win games
b) rake in lots of $$$$$, so that at some point in the future with your loss-trained trainees and top players overpaid on the transfer list you can challenge those who didn't need to do all that.

Sounds petty. Also sounds like catering to the weaker managers in the game due to design flaws...

You know if no economic penalty is introduced on tanking managers, the tax should be applied to training. The more you lose, the less training your players get.

I think the only instance I'd be happy with numbers decline is if all tankers disappeared from this game without a trace. They ruin the game as much as the bots, but they do it on purpose to gain an advantage because they are not able to close the gap in different ways. I'd rather quit myself than ruin the game for everyone else...

Last edited by Lemonshine at 1/22/2016 11:19:09 AM

Sorry to be precise, tankers would not have the usual sorry excuse that they do it "to train", would they?

Since this is the only part i actually feel is not intended as a direct attack on tanking ill just focus on that.

Sorry I amended it for you. Now, since you and others are often taking the higher moral ground in discussions, I would like to point out that I find it hypocritical and inappropriate that people who have been tanking or are currently tanking are telling off managers about how things should be.

If anything, as top teams (and none of us writing in this thread lately has a top team, except for Leonidas) have their own interests, probably, so do managers who chose to tank, like you. You branded someone's opinion as protecting "top teams" interests first, my friend, not me.

Someone like you weighing in this discussion in that way and arguing against top teams' needs and in favour of tankers' needs seems rather suspicious and I strongly believe that people reading should know this when evaluating your arguments against others, like Mike Franks. It's like a politician trying to convince his voters against gun control laws presenting it like the correct moral choice, without disclosing that he's been a member of the NRA for 40 years, a doctor suggesting a medicine instead of another without disclosing that he works closely with a specific pharmaceutical company. It's called conflict of interest...

I do think we still would see tanking teams even if you could train and compete. The simple reason being that many tank because they want money. So if you want to get rid of tanking i believe you probably can come up with a hand full of better ideas then that.

Eh the cat's out of the bag isn't it? Because that's where the big hypocrisy lies, as tankers claim they do it because they cannot train in a top league or even a D2. This is the typical reason tankers give and that you yourself have given in the past when talking about it.

Now, despite what you claimed in the past, you say that people tank because the want $$$$ and not because training and competing is impossible, but if the previous paragraph is true and we are to believe what tankers usually say, then training is exactly the problem for them...

Last edited by Lemonshine at 1/22/2016 2:52:03 PM

I like the current system where we don't have exact sublevel numbers, and exact training effect. Makes it more fun to me, since I have a good estimation of when a pop is going to happen, but sometimes it can be a week earlier or later, or sometimes you can get a surprise pop from cross training. If they added visible sublevels, that would kill the friday fun for me :)

If they added visible sublevels, that would kill the friday fun for me

Any manager using some kind of spreadsheet should know the minimum sublevel of the players he trained (and the maximum too, except you also have the cross training effect).

Besides it could be presented in a different way other than a number (like in the bar chart we already have) and it should be provided only for the main skill trained.

A lot of new managers have no clue about when to expect a skill to pop or even all the (secondary) skills they are going to train when they select a training regime. You may say that they need to put in the time and find out for themselves, but the reality is that the system is already complicated as it is without having to dig into it any further.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 1/22/2016 3:03:53 PM

The thing though is that this would help them to still be at the top so why wouldn't they want this to happen? I fail to see any logic at all behind your statement.

Because you're looking at it from only one viewpoint, or none.

In what world is to not be able to develop young players a advantage? If they actually could train they would have it easier when it comes to renewing their team as it gets older. And this would be a great benefit in comparison to how things work now.

That's my point -- it would benefit everybody, everybody would be able to train. Right now training is so f'd up that most managers cannot, or do not bother. All of a sudden there would be thousands of teams competing by training instead of just ten's (or to be generous, 100's). Some top managers see this and don't want the competition; they prefer to be big fish in small ponds. Some top managers would be okay with all managers being able to train because the game would be more fun with the added competition.

And I hadn't thought about it because I ignore tanking, but it would put a serious dent in tanking, too. Another good reason to reform training. Seems like every second thread eventually revolves around the need to reform training, even threads I do not participate in.

And please don't put words in threads and act like they're my own. I am capable of expressing my own views on things if I'm in the mood and have the time.

Yeah, but you were one of the supporters of the thesis that people tank because of training and I'm sure your posts are still out there.

I did it as a start of my plan in order to take a step back and train players without any pressure. I did it in the most favorable way for me as anything else would be like building a fire with 100$ bills.

That anything else would have made your league more fun for the other managers who were playing with you. Yes you all exploit the system because you can. So did daytraders. So did people buying trophies by building tens of millions of cash. They are no longer able to exploit the system the way they did. In short, just because you can do something, it does not mean it's right. It does not mean it doesn't have negative consequences for other people. It does not mean it didn't help creating this nice economic environment everyone is complaining about.

Feel free to judge as much as you like

Well...I invite you to check how and why my intervention here started.

In any case my point is that just because you think tanking is perfectly normal and acceptable and people should do it if they want to train, it does not mean we should agree that training is fine as it is and we just need to tank more to train more.

If we don't agree, it might be a good idea not branding us as top teams' little helpers and understand that we think about the improvement of the game for everybody. Since you said again that you tanked to build particular players, not having to lose most games because of it should make you very happy.

I got my race

You'd be better off buying my C with the cash you stockpiled.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 1/22/2016 7:33:15 PM