BuzzerBeater Forums

indeed...

Mostly I put my tactics after I selected my players.
It might not be bad to first choose the tactics, and then select your players. In this last case, it is best to have a variaty of players for each position indeed.
In the end you'll have to play the players you have in your team, I don't think anyone will amuse himself selling his team and buying the right players he needs for his next match. ;)

So it's a bid give and take, you set your team with the players you have, and you try to buy the players you need for your team.

Well, look at these two of my players:

(2254566)
(2254568)

First one has JS strong + JR atrocious, and second one JS strong + JR respectable...

I play them both on SG, and look at their stats... The first one has much better FG percentage, but he shoots less... The second one shoots a lot more, but with smaller percentage... Now look at their 3 pts... They both have around 25%, but first one had only 13 attempts, and second one above 70... Maybe that's the main thing with JR... Maybe it will not decrease your JS that much, you'll just shoot less from the outside... Because, following your theory, I would say that first player, Tulic, would have atrocious 3pt shot, and second one, Krasnic, respectable... But they have almost the same percentage... The difference is in number of shot attempts...

Edit: The first one even has better Driving, average, so he should, by that logic, shoot more than Krasnic... Krasnic has inept Driving... That must be related with JR...

Edited by Bevzil (12/22/2007 3:21:54 PM CET)

Last edited by Bevzil at 12/22/2007 3:21:54 PM

Driving is more related to handling, however it should also increase the quality of your shots.

I have an explaination for your players here.

the one with atrocious JR doesn't shoot that much because he 'sees' less oportunities than your better player, the one with good JR almost always sees a good shot, since he is good, and therefor takes a lot of shots, BUT....

due to the fact he is good he draws more defense, teams might start doubleteaming your good guy, making him mis more often.
Your bad guy won't draw any defense, since he wouldn't dare to shoot anyway since he knows he's likely to mis. Therefor the opponent might let him open more often. If he does shoot he'll have less defense against him, and hereby might make the same % of shots as the good one.
In other words: your good one misses his shots because of the defense of the openent, while your bad guy misses only to the fact he doesn't shoot good from far.

Still, the one with good JR is better... in this case he suffers from a bad teammate, and vise versa.
Would you have 2 similar players, both with bad JR, you would score less, since defense can than be divided evenly over them both, and they each get more defense than your 1 bad now, thus missing more.
Would you have 2 good JR guys, the defense would also have to divide their attention over both, since both form an evenly big threath, making that they would have less defense on them than your 1 good guy is taking now, thus scoring more...

I hope you understand my train of thoughts here. ;)

On an other note: you also need to take a look from where the guys shoot. From very close by, they will both be prety much the same since JR gets more important the farter away from the ring he is...

This one with atrocious JR shoots mostly from mid-range, since he's pitiful in Inside Shot...

And I don't think you understood what I said... They both play same position, let's say first one plays 20 mins at SG, the second one plays other 28 mins... They are both guarded by same players... And I don't think there is a doubleteaming in BB...

I read somewhere in the rules that your better player do draw more defense, while the others don't...

so even if they are guarded by the same players, still this is not how the game engine works...

I advise you to read the rules, you'll learn much there.

I did, mostly... When they translate it to my language, I'll read them all...

I'd say players have a random factor about how much they shoot. I have a player with the same skills. One shoots three times as many as the other one.
There is no real reason why you should attach the amount of shots taken to Jumprange or Jumpshot. I think it has to do with the "personality" of the player. That's one reason why i believe a player has hidden factors. Some just players are more likely to take more shots than the other one.

My example was just a pure guess. Maybe they both had atrocious Jumpshot at the 3 point range, because it declined way faster. My example was a bit too optimistic.

Thats why i say Jumpshot + Jumprange + Random factor = %FG. Not the amount of shots taken.

I'd say there is a random factor which i like to call "personality". It effects how much he'll shoot and what rating he;ll get. I have some players who love to shoot 20 times a game. And some i've seen players who'll get straight 8's even though they perform worse than my reserves. With 4 PF and 3 TO and only 9 points you don't deserve even a minus grade.

Edited by Riceball (12/23/2007 12:13:03 AM CET)

Last edited by Legen...Riceball...Dary! at 12/23/2007 12:13:03 AM

Thats why i say Jumpshot + Jumprange + Random factor = %FG. Not the amount of shots taken.

You and I discussed this before in another thread (and via PM) and I still must admit that this is almost too overwhelming for me to try and wrap my tiny brain around. But I keep trying.

I have foggy recollections of discussions with GMs and BBs when I fist began playing (~4 months ago) about how your team "chooses" its shots; but I was likely too dull to understand then, and I'm too lazy to try and find those threads now. But what I do have, is the Rules:

The central part of the game engine is how the half court offense/defense works. The general idea is that a team gets a series of opportunities to score. What kind, and what the quality of those opportunities are is a function of the offense they are running, the matchups between the offensive players and their defenders. A player must decide whether the opportunity presented is good enough to take a shot… this of course changes as a function of amongst other things… the shot clock, the players experience, the score of the game, the history of the quality of shots the team has seen recently, the offense the team is running, and whether that rookie shooting guard of yours thinks he knows better than the coach does how good he is at making jump shots.

I'm not too certain if that's just flavorful speech there; but that last bit kinda sounds like your "personality"/random factor. But I copied that part of the rules here as I thought it also might explain why the guys we expect to be good shooters shoot poorly, and vice versa. Why did the player take the shot he took? Was the shot clock near zero? Was he inexperienced, and didn't know any better? Was your team behind by double-digits and he took a 3-pointer when he had no decent looks from behind the arc?

The thing I have the hardest time wrapping my head around is this collection of words

"...the history of the quality of the shots the team has seen recently,..."

. I mean, I think I understand the concept, but can any of us really say we know what that means?

I, too, have guys who love to shoot 20+ shots per game. Some games they hit better than 50%; other times I find myself screaming "stop shooting, Carlos, you twat!!" at the match viewer. I also have guys who are great shooters when they actually decide to shoot. They just don't shoot very often...

With 4 PF and 3 TO and only 9 points you don't deserve even a minus grade.

I really think we need to know more about how defense is factored into ratings.

With 4 PF and 3 TO and only 9 points you don't deserve even a minus grade.


I really think we need to know more about how defense is factored into ratings.

Yes, thats what i was talking about in another thread. There is no way to know how your players performed at defense. We only get highlights of shots and indicators that it was a incept/block/PF, but the whole defense process we don't know. I think we need to have a separate rating for Defence/Offence per player.

Until then, a player with a double-double and a rating of 5 or lower, i will disregard the rating completely. I'd rather look at their season average than their ratings. Just personal preferences.


Edited by Riceball (12/23/2007 2:44:02 AM CET)

Last edited by Legen...Riceball...Dary! at 12/23/2007 2:44:02 AM

There is no way to know how your players performed at defense. We only get highlights of shots and indicators that it was a incept/block/PF, but the whole defense process we don't know. I think we need to have a separate rating for Defence/Offence per player.

Outside of stats, I also check the matchup ratings for a player's position. If my C didn't score much, but given the ratings he shut down the opposing C, I can kinda see why he was given an 8.0.

Until then, a player with a double-double and a rating of 5 or lower, i will disregard the rating completely. I'd rather look at their season average than their ratings. Just personal preferences.

I'm with you. It's a marathon, not a sprint. And stars are evil.

I think we kind of have a seperate Offense and Defense rating already..

I think the defense part is about 60-80% of the current rating. High enthousiasm leads to higher defense team ratings (f.e crunch time at 6 or normal at 8). Every time when you see a team play with high enthousiasm the players ratings are high as well and visa versa. A team who plays TIE with 5 enthousiasm will get lower team defense ratings and lower player ratings, while their shooting-% can stay the same.

If you compare players, you may see players with higher shooting-% but still with low ratings because they suck at the defense part. But on the other end you see players with low shooting-% and a high rating, because they defend pretty well.

So a player who made a double-double could still be lucky to pick up 10+ rebounds because his direct defender is even more crap in rebounding. This player still got a 5 rating because he is just a bad defender.


Then the shooting point. The influence of experience is well underrated in my opinion. I bought a player just to make a guess at the influence of experience, now here it is;
Alfreds Jentess (2650100)
Stats;
Jump Shot: atrocious Jump Range: mediocre
Experience: proficient

Shooting-%; 0,571, over 4 games.

A point guard with atrocious JS and mediocre JR who shooting 0,571%. Kinda weird isn't it. I think experienced players have a better look on the shot, they don't take crapshots very often.

A player must decide whether the opportunity presented is good enough to take a shot… this of course changes as a function of amongst other things… the shot clock, the players experience,

You see there are many factors which decide wether your player will shoot or not and wether he will hit or not. I don't think you can say that easily JS + JR + Random Factor = % FG.