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Suggestions > Isolation tactics shouldn't be neutral in GDP

Isolation tactics shouldn't be neutral in GDP

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From: Tuck

This Post:
00
259251.9 in reply to 259251.8
Date: 6/2/2014 11:03:10 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
12611261
What flaw? The fact that the Isolation offenses are considered Balanced for GDP has been known from basically the start of GDP. This sounds like sour groups from an uninformed manager making a mistake and not taking the responsibility for his own ignorance.
Isolation offenses are based on making a single player the focus point of the offenses; not a specific area of the court. Inside Isolation makes an inside player the focal point, but then the other four players are spread around as options. That is not an inside focused offense.



Wouldn't have said it better.
There's only a misunderstanding in the name for unfamillar managers with real basket-ball, that's all...

From: Brutus
This Post:
00
259251.10 in reply to 259251.8
Date: 6/2/2014 8:39:02 PM
Brutus Buckeye
ASL
Overall Posts Rated:
206206
Second Team:
The Ironmen

OK, first I will admit that I'm complaining because of how this impacted our game......

Reading what you wrote:
Isolation offenses are based on making a single player the focus point of the offenses; not a specific area of the court. Inside Isolation makes an inside player the focal point, but then the other four players are spread around as options.
You basically said that the focus is on an inside player. From my view this is by definition inside focused.

Also, if you check our match (28937) and look at the shot selection, they are almost identical for both teams. I ran Look Inside, he ran Inside Isolation, both teams took the vast majority of shots inside. Inside focused GDP should help when the team takes the majority of shots inside.

This seems like a loophole in how the GDP is set up. Basically I can cycle through three different inside focused offenses. Two of them get impacted by inside focused GDP, one of them can avoid it. This negates the intent of being able to used inside focused defense on inside focused teams.

Now that I'm aware of this loophole I will learn to exploit it myself. I've never really used inside isolation, but I will start testing it more. However, I would prefer the BBs would fix this situation. Either update GDP (preferred), or update the offense so that its not taking the majority of shots inside.

From: Yuck

This Post:
66
259251.11 in reply to 259251.10
Date: 6/3/2014 12:44:41 AM
Cassville Yuck
III.3
Overall Posts Rated:
553553
Second Team:
Yuckville Cass
Inside isolation is not an inside tactic though. Have you played it? I dare you to play it this week in league play. Then with the very same lineup play low post or LI in league play. You get a drastically different inside score rating. Low post and LI get a bonus rating for inside scoring but a negative in outside scoring. Ever notice how difficult it is to hit a three in LI? That's because as an inside offense, there is a penalty for outside shooting. There is a bonus however for inside scoring and one for rebounding if playing LI. If you play inside ISO you do not get this inside scoring bonus or any rebounding bonus but your outside scoring has a slightly better chance of hitting a three in this offense. I have played this offense quite a few times over the last two seasons. I am actually building my team around it and I assure you it is anything but an inside offense.

This Post:
00
259251.12 in reply to 259251.10
Date: 6/3/2014 9:44:59 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229

OK, first I will admit that I'm complaining because of how this impacted our game......

Reading what you wrote:
Isolation offenses are based on making a single player the focus point of the offenses; not a specific area of the court. Inside Isolation makes an inside player the focal point, but then the other four players are spread around as options.
You basically said that the focus is on an inside player. From my view this is by definition inside focused.

Also, if you check our match (28937) and look at the shot selection, they are almost identical for both teams. I ran Look Inside, he ran Inside Isolation, both teams took the vast majority of shots inside. Inside focused GDP should help when the team takes the majority of shots inside.

This seems like a loophole in how the GDP is set up. Basically I can cycle through three different inside focused offenses. Two of them get impacted by inside focused GDP, one of them can avoid it. This negates the intent of being able to used inside focused defense on inside focused teams.

Now that I'm aware of this loophole I will learn to exploit it myself. I've never really used inside isolation, but I will start testing it more. However, I would prefer the BBs would fix this situation. Either update GDP (preferred), or update the offense so that its not taking the majority of shots inside.


Isolation is the tactic, which is neither inside nor outside itself. Which player it chooses to isolate is what the II/OI decision is about, but it doesn't change the fundamental tactic of getting the guy the ball and letting him create his own shot (be it a drive, a jumper or a three).

As far as not taking a majority of shots inside, heck, against a bad ID team even R&G or Motion will take a large number of inside shots - because that's what is open.

This Post:
44
259251.13 in reply to 259251.10
Date: 6/4/2014 8:51:27 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
111111

OK, first I will admit that I'm complaining because of how this impacted our game......

Reading what you wrote:
Isolation offenses are based on making a single player the focus point of the offenses; not a specific area of the court. Inside Isolation makes an inside player the focal point, but then the other four players are spread around as options.
You basically said that the focus is on an inside player. From my view this is by definition inside focused.

Also, if you check our match (28937) and look at the shot selection, they are almost identical for both teams. I ran Look Inside, he ran Inside Isolation, both teams took the vast majority of shots inside. Inside focused GDP should help when the team takes the majority of shots inside.

This seems like a loophole in how the GDP is set up. Basically I can cycle through three different inside focused offenses. Two of them get impacted by inside focused GDP, one of them can avoid it. This negates the intent of being able to used inside focused defense on inside focused teams.

Now that I'm aware of this loophole I will learn to exploit it myself. I've never really used inside isolation, but I will start testing it more. However, I would prefer the BBs would fix this situation. Either update GDP (preferred), or update the offense so that its not taking the majority of shots inside.



Dirk Nowitski is an inside player... But he shoots a fair bit of 3s and jumpers. Not so much an inside attack.

Carmelo Anthony does a lot of outside isolation (outside tactic according to your theory) yet he scores the majority of his points in the paint.

If those 2 examples don't help think of it as you are changing your pg from whomever is your pg. to the person with the best inside/outside skills for if you picked inside/outside.

Essentially think 2003-2009 cavaliers offense lead by James as the pg even though he wasn't their pg

From: Yuck

This Post:
00
259251.14 in reply to 259251.13
Date: 6/4/2014 1:40:42 PM
Cassville Yuck
III.3
Overall Posts Rated:
553553
Second Team:
Yuckville Cass
Good comparisons.

I do think the offenses are named a bit incorrectly. I think they should be inside triangle and outside triangle. They operate much closer to a triangle offense than that of a true iso offense. Similar concept.

This Post:
00
259251.16 in reply to 259251.15
Date: 6/19/2014 12:59:22 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
111111
Dirk Nowitski is an inside player... But he shoots a fair bit of 3s and jumpers. Not so much an inside attack.

Carmelo Anthony does a lot of outside isolation (outside tactic according to your theory) yet he scores the majority of his points in the paint.


Its not even that. Even if your isolated player is incredibly inside focused, you still need long range shooters for spacing. They are fatally important, you couldn't isolate otherwise. Inside ISO sets up 1 on 1 shots inside obviously, but also catch and shoot opportunities from longer range. Neutral.



You bring up a topic that's been silent for 15 days to agree with Myself and Yuck?

This Post:
00
259251.17 in reply to 259251.1
Date: 6/24/2014 5:13:18 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
867867
How is it that Inside focus is wrong against inside isolation. That's crap.
The desirable outcome of an isolation play is for the player to create a mismatch in isolation and draw a double, then the ball is moved to the open player to score. The focus is to create a mismatch in that isolation area, but there isn't necessarily a focus on scoring from the isolation area.

A good example of an offense akin to the Inside Isolation in real life would be the Orlando Magic in Dwight Howard's final years there. Dwight was surrounded by shooters and when the defense double teamed Dwight the ball moved to open shooter.