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Outside attack too strong ?

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125704.92 in reply to 125704.90
Date: 1/2/2010 7:48:09 AM
Freccia Azzurra
IV.18
Overall Posts Rated:
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Second Team:
Slaytanic
no no Mazzurana had something about lvl 6-7 in SB, I mean Celestino Barbetta

In any case everyone could have reason, we see players with lvl 19-19 js/jr scored with the 20%, this game is so strange and seems so complicated

1990-2022 Stalinorgel - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV-Xppl6h8Et
From: JohnnyB
This Post:
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125704.93 in reply to 125704.92
Date: 1/2/2010 7:59:29 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
343343
This what i am talking about the big men vs guards. 4 skills with never ending debate about SB, and actually the ppl that defend SB are the BB's and the GM's. For the guards 7 skills with only debate being driving, but again is so much much cheaper than SB and trains 2-3 other skills...

Last edited by JohnnyB at 1/2/2010 8:00:44 AM

This Post:
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125704.94 in reply to 125704.87
Date: 1/2/2010 12:04:53 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
409409
And was the text for alteration?

The English version of the text is "XXX rotates over to help defend the play".


Is this something you believe or something you know?

I always understood that text as a help defense. A player who comes to help not necessarily is altering the shot through SB but rather ID.

That is how I read it.

Perhaps, many of us are confusing some of the "real perforance" of SB with things we "theorically" assume are part of ID. Then, even if Charles tell us the effect is there and that it is important, an amazing part of the community will not think it that way.



Last edited by Zero, the Magi. at 1/4/2010 11:49:45 AM

This Post:
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125704.96 in reply to 125704.45
Date: 1/2/2010 12:37:51 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
154154
Moreover, imho m2m and 3-2 work too well against look inside (in most cases much better than the 2-3 defense, which was "designed" for that).

On the other hand we can find another point of view - it is not a coinflip as it was for many teams before (will he go inside o outside, which I hsould choose...). 2-3 Zone has significant boost in rebounding that's probably why BBs made it weaker in the new engine.

(not saying things are balance; a bit surprised auch a thread was not created more then a season ago)

This Post:
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125704.97 in reply to 125704.52
Date: 1/2/2010 12:42:50 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
154154


2) There is no possible way to train such inside players. Are you really going to train a guy earning $200,000 in salary at a position where he sucks? I even recently suggested in the Canadian off-site forum that a young player with great outside skills and sub-par inside skills should be trained as a C... Everyone else (besides me) thought that was a complete waste. But I really do not see another way to develop these multi-skilled inside players.

Not arguing but there are managers doing that. Not really 200k (salary as an indicaton of quality is overrated) because if oyu have a 200k player you already went the wrong way and created a monster.

This Post:
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125704.98 in reply to 125704.60
Date: 1/2/2010 12:48:04 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
154154

"Basic" guards have 4 major skills (JS, JR, OD, Pass). "Good" guards probably have about 6 (add HN and DR).

"Basic" big men have 4 skills (IS, ID, Reb, SB). "Good" big men probably have 5 (add JS).


I can't agree with that and I'm sharing this opinion with several world top managers who would disagree with your post too.

This Post:
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125704.99 in reply to 125704.72
Date: 1/2/2010 12:52:24 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
154154
Altered shots show up in the viewer but not in the boxscore. If you ignore the value of altered shots, it will definitely make shot blockers seem less useful.

And the exact quote is? Shoudl we assume a shot is altered everytime the shooting players is defended?

This Post:
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125704.100 in reply to 125704.95
Date: 1/2/2010 1:27:31 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
343343
Everything well said, but u miss something. The highest skill that a new player can have is respectable. Skills that u can find both on scoring/SB on the lower divisions. Why then we dont get any good feedback from those managers about SB? I used to be there too, as thousand ppl that arguing about SB.

U r saying: I think this is part, again, of that whole discussion about giving centers secondaries. Is it a pain to train? Yes. Does it disrupt your ability to win games in the short-term? Perhaps, depending upon whether you are still in the tournament. But it's also immensely valuable, because everything in the game engine is done as a comparison..

Why isnt the same painful for guard trainers to train the 2ndaries of there guards? Why guards can get trained on 7 skills without change there positions and the big men only 4? That makes easy to have a great guard with 40-60k (Allstar), but my C trainee with the same potential needs just 3 pop ups to max out. That makes the- worth to train- big men even more rare, and if u consider that big men actually really needs those 2ndaries, way more expensive.

Why u cant see that? Its not ideal world and everybody wants to win as fast as he can. With that way u r giving us just 1 way to do it.

What i am asking its just equal chances. Nothing more nothing less.

Plz dont ignore me and try to give a clear answer on my points.

Last edited by JohnnyB at 1/2/2010 1:34:43 PM

This Post:
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125704.101 in reply to 125704.100
Date: 1/2/2010 3:24:24 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
409409
Everything well said, but u miss something. The highest skill that a new player can have is respectable. Skills that u can find both on scoring/SB on the lower divisions. Why then we dont get any good feedback from those managers about SB? I used to be there too, as thousand ppl that arguing about SB.


You should start looking at the division where most of the players who engange in this discussions are playing.


Why isnt the same painful for guard trainers to train the 2ndaries of there guards? Why guards can get trained on 7 skills without change there positions and the big men only 4? That makes easy to have a great guard with 40-60k (Allstar), but my C trainee with the same potential needs just 3 pop ups to max out. That makes the- worth to train- big men even more rare, and if u consider that big men actually really needs those 2ndaries, way more expensive.


It is the same pain. Playing your C as PF is similar to play a PG as SG or viceversa. If you are talking about the pain that might be train IS or ID to a PG, it is similar to the pain of training OD and JR to a C.


Why u cant see that? Its not ideal world and everybody wants to win as fast as he can. With that way u r giving us just 1 way to do it.

What i am asking its just equal chances. Nothing more nothing less.

Plz dont ignore me and try to give a clear answer on my points.


I'm not sure if there is a lot of people thinking that training inside players is worse than outside ones. What many people already knows is that the market does have more Inside players than outside ones, this is main reason about why they are more expensive.

We can start a speculative and not very useful conversation about why are we seeing this diference. Instead, I would say that something like: People do not think that training outside players is better than inside ones. If they really believed, we will be seeing a lot more PG and SG in the market.

This Post:
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125704.102 in reply to 125704.101
Date: 1/2/2010 3:41:27 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
343343
Everything well said, but u miss something. The highest skill that a new player can have is respectable. Skills that u can find both on scoring/SB on the lower divisions. Why then we dont get any good feedback from those managers about SB? I used to be there too, as thousand ppl that arguing about SB.


You should start looking at the division where most of the players who engange in this discussions are playing.

Those that doesnt posting here doesnt mean that they dont giving us any feedback.

Why isnt the same painful for guard trainers to train the 2ndaries of there guards? Why guards can get trained on 7 skills without change there positions and the big men only 4? That makes easy to have a great guard with 40-60k (Allstar), but my C trainee with the same potential needs just 3 pop ups to max out. That makes the- worth to train- big men even more rare, and if u consider that big men actually really needs those 2ndaries, way more expensive.


It is the same pain. Playing your C as PF is similar to play a PG as SG or viceversa. If you are talking about the pain that might be train IS or ID to a PG, it is similar to the pain of training OD and JR to a C.
No its not. I havent see anywhere that inside skills are so important for the G's. Anyway G's have 7 skills to train instead of big men that we have only 4

Why u cant see that? Its not ideal world and everybody wants to win as fast as he can. With that way u r giving us just 1 way to do it.

What i am asking its just equal chances. Nothing more nothing less.

Plz dont ignore me and try to give a clear answer on my points.


I'm not sure if there is a lot of people thinking that training inside players is worse than outside ones. What many people already knows is that the market does have more Inside players than outside ones, this is main reason about why they are more expensive.

We can start a speculative and not very useful conversation about why are we seeing this diference. Instead, I would say that something like: People do not think that training outside players is better than inside ones. If they really believed, we will be seeing a lot more PG and SG in the market.


Well training big men is faster, just 3-4 skills. Thats an eye poping dont u think? Also having u r national coach to push u to create a monster is an issue too.

Last edited by JohnnyB at 1/2/2010 3:53:43 PM

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