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I was going to stay out of this debate completely, but this is getting to be too much.

Most of you in the English community will at least know who I am. While I agree that the english of the portugese team isn't horrible, especially by internet standards, some basics seem to be lacking. Namely the ability to listen to other people and respond in a discussion rather than argue the same belated points over and over. I think this may rather be a maturity issue, however.

My take on this however comes down to some much more basic points. Astragoth has run a successful club for a long while now, and has been active in the English community. I haven't had any personal dealings with him in the past but he's always been respectful and polite in the things I've read. He has my respect for this.

The Portugese team certainly seems enthusiastic and well intentioned. However guys, you're sidestepping questions, responding by repeating the same things over and over, and insulting not only the other candidates, but the English community as a whole. Your attention to detail is lacking as you've repeatedly responded to and quoted the wrong people. You keep saying that you know what we need to do to be successful, but after reading this thread I still have no clue what your actual plans are.. you seem to be saying "Vote for us, we're active and smarter than you."

The major concern I have, however, is that none of you in the Portugese team actually has a strong successful club yourselves. You've never had the opportunity to use players of the level hopefully you'd have available to you as an NT manager. I didn't go in-depth looking at your squads as it didn't seem relevant after looking at the players you have and the short time you've been playing, but what can you tell us about the tactics available, and how top players respond to those? How can you expect to be taken seriously when you've never had the opportunity, due to young squads and weak players, to actually try different tactics with lineups designed to have success playing them?

If you seriously want to be elected in this (or any) country, try working with the community and educating us as to why we should vote for you. Stop insulting people, in fact stop even talking with them about their plans. TELL US ABOUT YOURS.

At this moment Astragoth has my full support, and I believe he'll do an excellent job. At least he seems to be reading and responding to what is asked of him, and has some experience in playing towards the upper half of the skill levels against good competition.

Da Bombs
EBBL

elboss, needs to have a good team, too, because without a good contribution and good users, nobody can't works.

Not sure I understand you. The user base in England is not that big. Most people are not all that interested in NT discussion or to be frank in the forums at all. If you think you can change that, good luck...

On another note. Why do you think you need a "team" to manage the U21? It's not to raise awareness surely since your team is made of two portoguese players? To discuss tacticts? To scout?

Let me reiterate you don't need scouts. You really don't. The only thing you would really need is a list of wannabe "farm" teams to train your players properly (single position to death). If you got that or ideas on how to get that let me know :)

You've been playing BB for only 2 seasons. You manage a team with players which are light years from those you'd find even in U21 england.

Why do you think you know how to handle players so different than those you normally deal with?

Also guys let's try to be productive. Have a look at the U21 group (Pool F) what do you think?

First of all, We dont insulte nobody. Since we come here to your NT we have been ignorate beacause we are portuguese. We just know what have and we try to show but you don't understand. For all of you it's complicate to accept that for this NT have a good season you need people of other countries.

We allways answer the questions but when we do one, someone wants that we answer, too. If I make a coment about the ideas I'm insulting people. You don't understand the different between discussion and insults?.

You said that we never use players with that level? how can you said that. We know Portuguese NT they helped us a lot, and now we want to help this Nt, because we know that we can do this job. We are the only candidature that have good plans a DB about players that can be the future of this team. Nobody did that. We told you about our plans, but you never did that. We tell the right things and sometimes don't want to understand. Be the escuse is allways "you're portuguese".

If you don't give us an opportunity why you say that? I hope an answer at this time.

First: I need a team because like I said in the speech, We are not machines, and there are many English players that some of you never saw. We have a good DB, we know players with attributes to be select and nobody did a job with their coach. We that team we can make a job for positions, and that's more easy. Everybody do that I don't understand why don't do this in England.

Second: If you read my speech I talk in three partners, and now I'm in conditions to say that my team can be a 4 or 5 partners. One per position maybe.

so after that my job would be more easy and better than if I did that alone.

For all of you it's complicate to accept that for this NT have a good season you need people of other countries.

Why? Because the users here are English we're inherently incapable of doing well?

We allways answer the questions but when we do one, someone wants that we answer, too. If I make a coment about the ideas I'm insulting people. You don't understand the different between discussion and insults?.

I suggest you re-read some of your previous posts. If you're talking about the inadequacies of the English community as a whole, many will take it in a negative manner.

You said that we never use players with that level? how can you said that.

Because I looked at the players on your team. You weren't the Portugese NT coach, so although you may have some familiarity with those players, you haven't actually used them. You haven't planned a strategy, set a lineup, clicked submit, and watched the results of YOUR actions with the players there.

We are the only candidature that have good plans a DB about players that can be the future of this team. Nobody did that.

If I'm not mistaken, elboss has responded to that point repeatedly. Again, you don't listen to what other people are saying.

We told you about our plans, but you never did that.

I have no plans. I'm not running for election. Again, you don't pay attention. Lack of attention to detail is a serious hinderance to any candidate.

We tell the right things and sometimes don't want to understand. Be the escuse is allways "you're portuguese".

I'll take that to be "We tell you things and sometimes YOU don't want to understand." You've said your english is good, repeatedly. Please display that. I said in my post that I didn't understand what your plans were, and yet here you're insulting me. Possibly unintentionally, but thats the way I take it. I don't understand your plans, and instead of explaining them to me, you're getting incredibly defensive. Even though I wasn't trying to be rude, if you can't take a little criticism then being the coach of an NT program isn't for you. Even if you do well, people will disagree with you, and many people aren't kind.

Be the escuse is allways "you're portuguese".

I don't care if you're English, Portugese, or an Jack Russel Terrier. I don't feel you're qualified to run an NT program. You've done nothing to allay my concerns, only repeated the same things you've said to others many times here. You feel people don't like you because you're portugese, why? You are the ones that keep bringing it up!

If you don't give us an opportunity why you say that?

An opportunity to do what? This thread is at or near 100 messages now. You've had ample opportunity to explain your thought processes, and why you think you'd be a good group to run the NT. Or do you mean we haven't given you an opportunity to show that you'd be good with the team? I'm sorry to inform you that this thread is about exactly that. You trying to earn the trust of the English community to give you a chance to succeed or fail with OUR team. If I've misunderstood this statement, please state it in english than a native born speaker can understand.

To Recap, my main point was that I don't think you're experienced or mature enough for the job. Now prove me wrong.


edt: After re-reading this I apologize for the antagonistic wording of some of the things said. I haven't had my coffee yet. I do however feel the points are valid, as they represent my personal opinion.

Last edited by dabomby at 9/10/2009 8:56:45 AM

bah this is my second attempt since BB timed out...

I have had a look and let me give you my opinion

These are our games and I am sure everyone agrees that the top spot is clearly for Germany... Let me give you my thoughts on game by game basis and show you the amount of active members in these countries. Off course this opinion is based on how countries performed in the past, obviously we dont know what their new crop off players would look like.

Germany 1259 active members world ranking 9
Finland 744 active members world ranking 26
Sweden 347 active members world ranking 29
Netherlands 371 active members world ranking 7
Andorra 26 active members world ranking 76
Azarbajzan 22 active members world ranking 82
Bosnia 546 active members world ranking 48
England 738 active members world ranking 49

9/21/2009 6:30:00 PM England U21 -- Deutschland U21 we dont stand a chance

9/28/2009 6:30:00 PM Suomi U21 -- England U21 if we get very lucky, our tactics right and they get theirs wrong we stand a small chance due to home court advantage, but only a very small chance.

10/5/2009 6:30:00 PM England U21 -- Sverige U21 they play the 2 easiest teams first and have home court advantage, no chance at all

10/12/2009 6:30:00 PM Nederland U21 -- England U21 ranked 7 in the world, no chance at all.

10/19/2009 6:30:00 PM Andorra U21 -- England U21 we will win

10/26/2009 6:30:00 PM England U21 -- Azərbaycan U21 we will win

11/2/2009 6:30:00 PM England U21 -- Bosna i Hercegovina U21 i think we stand no chance, i know world ranking wise we are equal, but basketball is a main sport in bosnia and their ranking is so low because for whatever reason they had a few walk overs in season 9 which I am sure would have affected their world rankings. Also they have home court advantage.

I will continue with this thread when I get home... I am currently at work.

I'll try to answer all of your questions so wait just a little bit

First, our list is composed of 3 players, being one of them jotapeq, from portuguese first league. You say we don't read anything but it seems like we are not the only ones.

We have already talked about our scouting plans. As we have written earlier in this thread, we will scout through all English leagues and from other countries. After that, we will send a message to all the users who have an english player with atleast allstar potencial asking for their skills, and saying that we will help them, not only training the player, but also developing their knowledge. To the ones who answer us ( We know that there won't be many, but they will be some ), we, as promised, will help them and tell them about the events happening in the forum. These events will be: Training Game, Guess Contest, and Match Analysis.

Training Game: I've been organizing this event in Portugal during this season. The main goal is to reward players who train their english players. Every week, they will send us their players pops, and I will give them points for each pop. At the end of the season, the three with more points, will have the oppurtunity off seing his player on the last scrimmage of the U21 NT.

Guess Contest: Every week, we will give players the chance to predict some NT games (results, best scorer etc.). The winner will have the chance of select the tactics of the U21 team in the last scrimmage.

Match Analysis: Before and after every game, we will make an analysis about it. Before: Other team's players, shapes etc. After: What worked, didn't worked, how did we win/lose the game etc.


PS: This year, I won Concurso de Resuntados ( Guess Contest) in Portugal, And I did the tactics for Portugal senior NT in their last scrimmage. Other thing I'd like to point is that in Portugal we use a thing called NT forums in BB-stats. There we can choose who enters and who don't. Portugal used that to show their players' skills so I know what is the value of a NT player, and I even handled them one time.

First: I need a team because like I said in the speech, We are not machines, and there are many English players that some of you never saw

Dude, that's the problem. We have machines to do that job. We don't need people scouting... We are bit more evolved than Portugual there :)

And trust me I've seen every single english player :)

We are the only candidature that have good plans a DB about players that can be the future of this team. Nobody did that.



If I'm not mistaken, elboss has responded to that point repeatedly. Again, you don't listen to what other people are saying.

Elboss isn't from any candidature. And what Astragoth said was that he was keeping an eye on 21-years players and that what he saw from the draft was that there was not good players. If we can't have excelent players, we have to worry about training those who are one step behind. The way he talked, it seemed that we was not going to do anything about 18-year players because they weren't good enough. And what will happen to the coach that will win elections in season 12? He won't be able to do anything because their players suck.

An opportunity to do what?

You were saying that nothing works to make users train players. I was saying that if we don't have an oportunity to try this, we will never know if this can work ( this already worked in Portugal). Seems that the one not reading is you.

I don't care if you're English, Portugese, or an Jack Russel Terrier. I don't feel you're qualified to run an NT program. You've done nothing to allay my concerns, only repeated the same things you've said to others many times here. You feel people don't like you because you're portugese, why? You are the ones that keep bringing it up!

If I've misunderstood this statement, please state it in english than a native born speaker can understand.

Well... You don't care about our nationality? I doesn't seems like that


Answering your question, if you had read everything right, you would notice that the thing we said that could fail, was the training sistem. And as from what all of you said, it as already failed in the past, so we cannot do worse than it already is ( I'm not insulting the previous coaches)