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But should BB decide to tax unsold players, I hope they work with a small and fixed number, and not as a % of something.

:)

I was agreeing with out while I read it till the last paragraph. The msall fixed number could be "harsh" for newbies as some of them will surely try to sell players of 10k or so of worth. When the fixed number would be nearly that, it would make them sad. As they usually don't know exactly who is worth what it would restrict their transactions behaviour. I know from one other managerial game where such a mechanism exist it is no good. There is 10k minimum tax or higher based on %. There is a some kind of sport academy un that game, so unless you decline all prospects coming from it, number ofp layers on your roster raises. So you need to get rid of some. Because of that tax feature I ended up guessing whether I should list a player on TL, because every attempt to sell him would cost me money, or fire him immediately as I was starting with not so great players. So I enlisted some hoping they will bring me more money than what the tax would be. Some went unsold, some for 10-15k and one or two were sold for couple of hundred thousands with no apparent difference among them - I might just fired those best selling ones as I did some others. In that game those money those amounts weren't much but still - the same pattern could happen here especially in that low value segment of the market - it is sometimes a bit random whether player goes unsold, sold for 1k or let's just say 30k. In addition some of those new managers will always try to sell their worthless players fro mthe original 18, not knowing they can't really bring them more than the fixed tax is and they should probably just fire them instead.

Say no to the taxes, even bigger no for the fixed ones.

I know about the weekly salary issue. It's not a high price to pay considering you can still use the players listed. Perhaps no tax is needed if you could not play the players listed?
About listing, I don't know but I think it is harder to start the tax from the players third listing by one team? Perhaps with errors there could be more GM tickets than with taxing every not sold player. I agree you might not sell your player on the first try (but I'm pretty sure that player that does not sell on the first try is listed already at the top of his value or over it). Now if you have listed him 3 times for the same price and he has not sold, it's not about bad timing, he is just not worth that much. Believe me I have seen players listed for the same amount for a month in a row, 2 listings in a week. I just find it silly and frustrating when he eventually get's sold to a new div.V team.

The market value of players fluctuate dramatically throughout the season. I have no reason to sell a player for less than what he is worth to me. If I believe a player to be worth 1 million, then I will try to sell him for 1 million, and if no one buys him that does not mean he isn't worth 1 million. Even if I list him for 1 month straight for 1 million and he doesn't sell that doesn't mean he isn't worth 1 million because he is worth that much to me. And if, after 2 months, there happens to be another user in the world that happens to agree that this player is worth 1 million then he will finally be sold and both I and the buyer will be happy and no one is harmed.

And the buyer doesn't even need to think the player is worth 1 million, the buyer might think he is worth 850k, however due to particular circumstances (for example, perhaps one of his players was injured and he didn't realise until 2 hours before his next cup game where he needs a player with similar skills to the one I have on offer and in the short time remaining before his cup game there aren't any other players available) he is happy to pay the extra 150k to get the player in time for his cup match.

Also, don't know if you were actually suggesting this or not, but stopping listed players from playing is just ridiculous and very unrealistic.

New div 5 teams don't have that much money, which means that the issue of players being listed way above their value doesn't really affect them as they don't have the money to purchase the player anyway. What may affect them is players listed under 500k that may be a little above value, but it is up to them to decide how to spend their money, and if they make a mistake then so be it, they can learn next time. And if the div 5 team does have a lot of money, by this time they probably know their way around the game a bit.

If I believe a player to be worth 1 million, then I will try to sell him for 1 million, and if no one buys him that does not mean he isn't worth 1 million. Even if I list him for 1 month straight for 1 million and he doesn't sell that doesn't mean he isn't worth 1 million because he is worth that much to me.

That's where I think you are wrong. If I think my bench player is worth 15million does not actually make it so.
I'm not sure how often anyone buys an expencive player to fill a spot. So I can't comment on that. Scrubs get bought for scrimmage.
Could you explain why stopping listed players is ridiculous? You are trying to sell the player right?
About the lower league teams. Some teams gather money for seasons without really buying anything before. Seen it happen and it will prolly happen again. You would be surprised how many managers (that have been playing from season 3-4) ask the most basic questions via forum or bb-mail. So you can not assume that everyone understands the game as fast as you.

If you think your bench player is worth 15 million, and I happen to have a bench player of similar skills listed for 15 million, and you see him and decide you want him, then he is worth 15 million to me and he is worth 15 million to you.

I know I have bought players in a last minute hurry purely to try and win a cup game, and I am sure many players will do so before cup games, playoff games, relegation games and even important league games.

Stopping players from playing if they are listed will result in all players being listed on the market on tuesdays after the league game. The player will probably have already played in both the league matches that week and so won't need to play in the scrimmage, and will be sold or not sold before the next game that the player is required.

I suppose there may be some teams that save up lots of money initially and don't buy anything, but I don't believe there will be many. And like I said, I am sure they will learn from their mistake.

If you think your bench player is worth 15 million, and I happen to have a bench player of similar skills listed for 15 million, and you see him and decide you want him, then he is worth 15 million to me and he is worth 15 million to you.

You nicely missed the point. If I think he is worth 15 mil and he actually is not and someone buys him and I get reported for it, I get my funds corrected. Now if nobody reports is it a correct price? Hardly...
I havent bought a player in a last minute hurry, I counter your many, raise you with most users do not buy players for one game.

Stopping players from playing if they are listed will result in all players being listed on the market on tuesdays

Which is good because the constant listers can list once a week, if they use that player in league games. If he uses him for scrimmage then he must list him on another timeframe (unless he wants to lose gs).

And like I said, I am sure they will learn from their mistake.

We should work on prevention, not fineing overpriced transfers (gm workload) and creating unhappy newbies.

I think you are incorrect here Naker. What you are describing here is more a fishing scenario to hope a player eventually pays 15 million for it out of stupidity or inexperience rather than him actually believing he is worth 15 mill. 15 mill is an unlikely figure to use as usually only the top experienced managers deal with transactions that could be worth that much

On a small scale everyday level, lets say 150k. If you truely believe a 2k salaried player is worth 150k to you, it doesn't mean that the market equilibrium for such players should be 150k. It just means you think he is worth 150k. Market forces will determine the value of the player and it is clear that he is not worth 150k. What you are essentially doing is listing it at 150k hoping to bait a n00b into buying the player way above market value. I've seen this happen before and I doubt every single one of these transactions are reported.

I havent bought a player in a last minute hurry, I counter your many, raise you with most users do not buy players for one game.

You gotta give this up fella. Teams with ambition are doing this all around you every week... BB3/domestic cup and soon some managers who know their roster isnt strong enough to secure them promotion or a championship will contemplate if and who they splurge on in order to improve their chances. I'm not saying its right but its a strategy and one day maybe you will or should consider it for your own team. You can't tell me you'll never get a key injury 1 week before the playoffs or a cup game and that will cause you to pay over what you would normally deem appropriate for a replacement.

Just use the transfer market in the manner it has been set out for everyone to utilize. It's regulated nicely by the community of managers and the GM's when called into action make the ultimate decisions as to whether anything untoward has taken place.

After all has been said and discussed in this thread maybe rather than considering why with all your experience 'you wouldnt pay X' instead think of 'why should you pay Y' (or accept the counter arguments you love to ignore on why there are plausible reasons for player valuations higher than you may agree with.) We all see players transfer for prices over and above what we ourselves would pay. What I think you are misunderstanding is that its not just new teams that pay prices that you cant figure out why. (related to 1st paragraph)

Your concern about perennial listers can be construed as an annoyance but there are sufficient preventative measures in place and beady eyes to ensure this activity is punished.

Lets move on.


Last edited by Superfly Guy at 5/8/2010 12:30:58 AM

I havent bought a player in a last minute hurry, I counter your many, raise you with most users do not buy players for one game.

I think you severely underestimate how often this happens. I know teams that want to do well in the cup that have bought players in a rush to try and secure a victory. More commonly is the last minute rush before playoffs where many people are trying to get a last minute superstar to increase their chances of promotion, or simply to avoid relegation. Hence why prices are often so much higher during the week before playoffs.

Which is good because the constant listers can list once a week

So what you are saying here is you don't mind people constantly listing "overpriced" players as long as it is only once a week? If listed players couldn't play then even managers who are listing at a small starting price will start listing him on tuesday after the league game so that the player (if not sold) will be available for the next game. This will give an unfair advantage to managers that are available on friday nights to buy players, or more importantly, it will disadvantage managers that aren't able to be on BB on friday nights. The TL isn't supposed to be like that, there should be players of quality standard available all day every day for whoever wishes to purchase them.

You seem to keep referring to newbies as if they are the only ones that have overpaid for a player. I don't consider myself a newbie (although you may consider me one) and I have overpaid for players. I overpay because if there is a particular player that I want to buy then I will buy him and I don't mind overpaying for him. It may be that he is an Australian player with good skills and would drastically improve my team, in which case he is worth more to me then it would be worth to you. So does that mean I am overpaying? I don't think so, I am paying what I think the player is worth, just because it is more than you think it is worth doesn't mean I am overpaying.

Like you said lets consider a more plausible example than 15 million. So with your example of 150k, perhaps the player is a 2k player with Hall of Famer potential. Does that now mean he is worth 150k? What if an experienced player buys the 2k salary player with Hall of Famer potential? Does that now mean that he is worth 150k?

All I am trying to say is that there are 50000 users (approximately) in this game. If I list my player at a particular price, there only needs to be 1 player that thinks the value of the player is the same or close to what I listed. I am not talking about tricking a newbie in to buying an overpriced player. I am talking about listing a 1 million dollar player for 1.2 million because he has a slightly unique skill set. Now maybe he doesn't sell for a week or 2, and then on the third week suddenly 2 players bid on the player and eventually he sells for 1.5 million. Market forces are highly unstable and unpredictable and values of players can change every day.

Once there is a free market, it means that you can do things which can get you in a better situation. Completely fair system means that there should be solid prices for every skill and noone should earn more than that...

However trying to regulate free market is the decision which is going against the existence itself, because try to ask yourself - why should be there any free market, if there will work things by the principles which are not free?