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i agree with most points you make here. I think there are training plans yet to be in mass use that will allow a player to be trained for both U21 and NT purposes and still be salary efficient.
With Hendrickson he was a 7/4/5/4 Inside skills start. I alternated alot of ID/SB and did alot of SB training.
SB trains SB ID IS and REB, you can see it in my diary, in my players, my utopia players, in EPKS players, in anyone who takes my advice and alternates ID and SB. you will see faster ID/SB/IS/REB growth than you do with the current u21 big training plans.

If Hendrickson had followed the same path as a 7/7/7/7 start big.....you could of been looking at a 14/16/15/16 kind of player in 3 seasons. I will put 2 of those bigs against 2 of any u21 big out there. I have half the mind to sell off my team and find two bigs with the right builds just to prove to you guys that this method does in fact work, but Im very attached to my players and I fear no matter what proof i show no one will change there ways so whats the use?

Last edited by tetrahydroc at 2/17/2016 9:53:27 AM

I agree there is a fine line between training for both, with some players and builds. However I think that you can effectively train a 6'3-6'10 player with a u21 path and a nt path long term, its all in the start and the end build and how you get there.

Its not that I dont like 1v1f training, of course I do, but everything in moderation. The more you pump HA/DR and JS/IS the higher the salary goes faster, and in my eyes you can squeeze more SP onto players by building defensively first, but keeping your IS/JS/HA/Dr relative to the OD/ID/SB/REB/PA/JR. The more SP the better, the more balanced, the cheaper and happier everyone is.

For example, if Carl Baxter had a slightly different training path or a slightly better start (3/4/4/4) He could have potentially made the u21 this season as a Big. I now am training him outside and this season alone he grew 12 pops 5 OD's alone. IF he had a greater Potential he would be a NT Candidate, even as he is now he may approach 135-140 TSP by the time Iam done with him and be a potential NT Candidate.

I am ok with including SB if the owner wants to train, but even the Hendrickson build you mention has the U21 min of 12/12/12/x, but you still need guys with 16-17 IS on the roster. 60 big skills by the end of year 3 is also very very optimistic. You need a higher level trainer, a trainee that is MVP or HOF and that build is well over 100k. No one will complain about a build like that. Some of the training plans do have to be revised. Training SB with ID is what I would do too.

of course thats just an out of the park example, Hendrickson popped well, had a 5-7 trainer for most of his life and only missed 3 weeks on injury during his 18-21 seasons. Ideal factors would be needed.

The scenario that presents itself to me is that we allow the manager his age 21 season to train mostly 1v1F allowing for managers to train 4-6 guys and ideally keep our u21 players in the best GS possible by reducing the 3 guys for 48+ effect of one position as we scramble to pile more ID/IS on our guys in year 21. A 1v1f here and there, some rebounding every little bit to keep the pops flowing. Some guys end up higher in IS because of start and some guys end up higher in defense/reb
they all have decent flow skills and js that get better as the u21 season wears on and the GS stays easier to manager for all the players involved.

Scenario
yr 1 SB/ID/IS Yr 2 IS/ID/SB yr 3 Reb/IS/SB(or fill in holes based on build) yr 4 1v1f/ big skills as needed.

Last edited by tetrahydroc at 2/17/2016 10:06:25 AM

And GM-Jason....


GM....


I find your personal attack campaign to be the most insulting, and most allegorical depiction of the off-site's dysfunction there is.

This was the most un-professional display I have seen in over 40 months of partaking in Buzzerbeater off and on. I doubt you'll be ashamed of yourself... But I'll be ashamed for you.

I've re-read all three of his posts in this thread. I don't see anything in terms of an over-the-top personal attack - he pointed out you have a less-than-impressive resume in this game to date, and then responded to a comment from tetra and a post from you. Whether he has fancy letters before his username or not doesn't remove his right to have an opinion, nor does it remove his right to express it within the rules of the forum in which it is expressed.

I stayed out because my opinion of the NT/U21 aspect of the game is not positive at all (although I grudgingly admit it's probably the only reason we have a userbase at all now). I did point out that the whole notion that the U21 is running on a lengthy streak of patheticness is patently false; there was a forfeit that threw the last two year cycle into the turdmill, and otherwise three straight cycles playing for a title.

Personally, I applaud the fact that you think you're capable of doing the job. But you have to understand that part of the process is convincing others that you have the chops, and Jason's standards are pretty high. I mean, honestly, even when V was mostly full (when I started), it was painfully easy to promote if you knew the basics of game shape management, enthusiasm management, and had any sense of how to build a team and play appropriate tactics.

Okay, addressing our remaining candidates, tough, Goldbear, oriolekid and Tha Yimmy/FurySK, and getting back to the purpose of this thread:

Fury and Tough, you both said that you will stay involved with the U21 team even if you are not elected. For tough, I understand this means running the scouting program, but Fury, Goldbear and Oriolekid, what will you bring to the table, win or lose?

It's my understanding that this season's 21 year old class, especially the big men, is pretty weak. We talk a lot about long term strategies to make future classes better, but in the short term, how will you work around the relatively poor players you have at your disposal? Would you be opposed to calling up 20 year olds or players with less potential?

Lastly, what is something on your hypothetical BB Résumé that you feel separates you from the other candidates? Also what is a new strategy or something you would implement that goes against the norm or is different from past U21 managers?

Thank you for your patience and professionalism and commitment to the team.

Last edited by Nick22 at 2/17/2016 3:30:25 PM

Most capable?

GOLDMEMBEAR

Of course I'll find the time. I've always found the time. It seems like every day since December 21st, 2009, since I was a Freshman in high school, I've found the time. My time every day need naught be recorded on the offsite. I have scouted, I have gameplanned, I have discussed their build(see: Cliff Duncan), I have trained(see: Otto Reedy). I haven't had a reason to make sure everyone is doing their jobs since that should be reserved for their coach, but I obviously will when it comes down to it. I've offered advice when people have PMed me.

Jelme, Wozzt, Jfarb, Edju, Namssor, RamQ, Sleet have all been great BB managers, and attribute great things to the NT, most have even been BB managers. None are still active. All have been qualified. I've learned from most of them. I've even taught some of them.

My experience is extremely strong. I've stuck through this game for so many year, and have seen hundreds of great managers go. I was one of the original scouters, back when only the NT/U21 coach did it. I volunteered my time and now dozens of managers scout for us. I have the oldest training diary on the offsite. I keep it update, still.

I'm qualified for this job. Isaiah, finally, got his NT job. I think it'd be poetic if I joined him this season with my own job. Though, he's still never won an election, which I find even more beautiful.

Hey now...I did win an election http://www.buzzerbeater.com/country/1/ntelection.aspx?ele...

But that would be very poetic.

Ahh you had to go spoil the history and, you know, win. How dare you!

Alright all....back to the debate.

My question for all- there can be a fine line between training for the U21 and training for the NT. Sometimes, training for the NT can mean that players wont necessarily be great options for the U21 because of getting the out of position training early on. As manager, will you be willing to work with myself, and any other possible future NT manager, if that means some of your best young talent wont be options for the U21?

Also, to go along with the question above, typically the Scouts are in charge of the players 21 years old and younger. As the NT manager, I typically work with guys in the 22-32 years range and even had some amazing help with the 22-25 years range last season. Due to rarely working with U21 players, how will you determine which ones go the NT route compared to U21? Do you plan to make this a conversation between myself and you, plan to make that decision yourself, or plan to make that a community decision?

I'm not of the belief that the majority of the NT players are not of use to the u21, and vice versa. The players that i want to incorporate into the u21 are involved in less prominent roles, and probably less potential than is desired for the u21 group. I'd also point out that the majority of Phyr's ideal builds that he posted for the NT builds, whether or not they are accurate, are entirely doable within a u21 run as well.

In reality to go with your 2nd question, it's up to the user who owns that player first. Only then can i send a BB-mail and say "is this guy someone on your radar or no" to someone like you currently if i can get the buy-in required, or get them to sell to someone who will.