BuzzerBeater Forums

sure, your training methods you did describe accurately, that doesnt mean these players have not been trained in other areas by other managers before you purchased them off the market.

Not to mention the players you mentioned won nothing in the u21. And they are all well rounded players with both outside and inside defense and other skills at this point in there lives, I see no correlation with what you are preaching to the managers of the usa. Sure you may only train 1v1F/IS and defense on them, but someone trained there passing and other skills somewhere, unless they were lucky and started with all that passing and JR.

the fact of the matter is, you talk to some of the USA managers who are building u-21 players for other nations and these other nations have requirements of guys to have both inside and outside skills, passing and jr etc.

When was the last time the USA u-21 won anything with these same old builds? Isnt it time we realize that other skills make just as much if not more of an impact then the ones we have been focusing on?

sure, your training methods you did describe accurately, that doesnt mean these players have not been trained in other areas by other managers before you purchased them off the market.

Not to mention the players you mentioned won nothing in the u21. And they are all well rounded players with both outside and inside defense and other skills at this point in there lives, I see no correlation with what you are preaching to the managers of the usa. Sure you may only train 1v1F/IS and defense on them, but someone trained there passing and other skills somewhere, unless they were lucky and started with all that passing and JR.

Aside from Bill Isom (purchased off TL), Meek and Kearney are home grown players. However, all were trained by me from 18, to now. Meek was my first trainee, who barely missed the U21 squad primarily due to my lack of experience training forwards; and also because EBW (U21 manager at the time) hated Darry Meek's face. Kearney and Isom, however, were selected to the U21 squad that eventually won Americas Gold.

But enough about my trainees and all their glory, sure they're awesome, but this is about OUR trainees and the future of America!

South Stags from Season 32

I think one thing I would like to change is the training methods of 18-20yo players. By that I mean I would like us to identify roles sooner for players and have them work towards being those players when they start their 21yo season.

By that I mean I would move a away from saying "If training a big have big man skills all over x", and instead move towards "You big man's offense sucks, but his ID/SB/RB are strong, lets make your player a true R'n'G center and ignore his offense all together". I guess I ma saying that due to the size of the community I would want to have greater mix of Big men (some that a standard well rounded Bigs, some only for off, some only for def, and maybe even 1 that is a 3 point shooter).

This comment was from someone running for u21 last season. I think it's a relevant discussion to have now, given other teams have gone down the u21 path a bit differently. Can we afford to ignore having potential call-ups available to change the structure of the offense and defense to outplay another team that might be comparable to us? I'll post my response in a few posts, but wanted to see what other potential u21 managers think of South Stag's discussion point, and whether Serbia's victory over us last season with a star player a few weeks into the season is enough to at least consider opening up All-star level potentials to the u21.

This has been a huge problem of the last 2 teams that I have noticed. You point it out as "identify roles" I don't want to put words in your mouth, are you saying that the builds are all the same?

I agree that having 5 "bigs" is not the same as having a "true pf" a "true C" a hybrid C, a defensive Bigman, and an all-around Big. Different build, different role, I agree with you that it would be better if we recognized the difference in builds between players at a sooner age and then geared them towards those roles that better fit the players. A part of this change comes down to the training philosophy. it is currently a widespread belief to start every 18 year old with 1 v 1 F.

Q:
A head coach is only as good as his coaching staff around him....

How will you (guys) handle this? I feel like the last several seasons the scouting has been lacking a lot, and there hasn't been much personalization to managers training U21 candidates.


I also notice that most U21 players keep coming from the same managers who train the same way for the same builds each time.
Do you see this as a problem? If so: How do you think this can be improved upon?

I addressed this in my speech... but the victory of the USA U21 team 3 years from now, starts today. and It starts by keeping an open door of communication with managers of the players that are talented. Personally, i don't care how decorated, or well-respected, or anything like that you are, You could have trained 15 previous U21 stars and 8 NT heroes, etc. I am STILL going to communicate with you regularly, or have someone communicate with you, regarding your player. this is a team sport, and it takes a team to earn the victory. If Tough, or Fury, or myself win the U21 for USA. We didn't win it. The people that trained all those players, the people that managed the game-shape, the people who were communicating and keeping the team together. They're the ones who win it. All I do as the coach is supervise this, delegate work, pick up the slack on any work not done, and then just set a lineup (not forfeit).

my intention was not to disparage your trainees or your team as you are doing fine obviously with both, but your method of only training players one way is a method that the u21 has been doing as long as i have been here and it has produced little to no results. Its time to do something different.

Q:
Should we EXPECT any U21 forfeits from "you" as a new manager for u21 like we have ... started to grow accustomed to?

I will immediately resign in Embarassment if there are any forfeits under my tenure.

the fact of the matter is, you talk to some of the USA managers who are building u-21 players for other nations and these other nations have requirements of guys to have both inside and outside skills, passing and jr etc.

When was the last time the USA u-21 won anything with these same old builds? Isnt it time we realize that other skills make just as much if not more of an impact then the ones we have been focusing on?

I think that the training methods other nations cannot be ignored when we think about how we train. It is a fact that we are competing against other nations. If the other nations are training in manners of build that are different than the blueprints we have for ourselves, then its possible they have builds that we are not prepared for. On the other side, if we continually build the same way over and over and over and over and over and over... we become predictable, and then players can be built specifically for use in games vs us if need be.

I know, because this is the kinda thing I would do or employ... players built specifically to bust up, or counter, specific kinds of teams/players.

Question for all: In the past few seasons, we have had a dying/ lack of interest in the U21. Our best draftees are being trained incorrectly or even having their potential wasted. What do you propose to do to solve this and encourage people back to the ways of training for U21?

Question for all: In the past few seasons, we have had a dying/ lack of interest in the U21. Our best draftees are being trained incorrectly or even having their potential wasted. What do you propose to do to solve this and encourage people back to the ways of training for U21?

Interest in U21 (or NT for that matter) is a mindset. It is a national mindset that people have to want to buy into. There are managers that will seek it out for themselves, and try and become involved such as Duke Ward did. There are others, that won't really think about it until its brought to their attention via reaching out to them. There are also those that won't buy into it no matter what.

For each of these guys you have to approach them differently:
Key points to hit on with everyone though are the benefits of training period. Not even for U21. Just training period. If everyone trains, they become a little more invested in BB. They become a little more invested in their team, and their players. All this will lead to a better retention rate of managers for BB in general. With more players being trained, that will (side effect) help stabilize the transfer market some even.
So we need to re-focus efforts on training players and not brainwashing people into only certain potential players should even be bothered to be trained. Yes it makes no sense training Benchwarmers and announcers if you have better options. Yes there are better options to train for all ages and players. But if someone has a good star or allstar potential player... why are we trying to convince them they need to buy a Perennial Allstar or better and then train that player instead. One of the best players from the S33 draft class PERIOD I saw, was an allstar potential 6'6 guy. So we need to get them training and enjoying the game and what they're doing. If they don't have fun, why would they continue on with the game.

A problem with U21 training currently, is that it can be EXPENSIVE and newer managers are often not able to do that. The newer managers may need to focus on building their stadium out and maximizing their teams profit, before shelling out for level 4, 5, 6,7 trainers to train their trainees. Or than spending 5 mil on a 58 TSP player.

AS the scout for 18 year old big prospects from S33. What I would do is personalize the BB-mail I sent to managers after the generic "you have a u21 possibler guy, blah blah blah" I would personalize it, ask them what they wanted out of their team and how they wanted this guy to fit into their team. I explained the pros and cons and answered questions regarding U21 to them as well if they didn't know what it was. Once I was on the same page as them, then we could work on the builds for their players. I also would give them an idea as to how the other players their player was competing with was looking, so that would have an idea of how their player stacked up, it gave them a sense of achievement and satisfaction. This goes along with my personal belief that improving communication at ALL LEVELS of the U21 process is something that we need to place an emphasis on.

I'd like to Say "Great Job" here to (24091), Isaiah, for the team's gold in the NT this year!

Last edited by EightPackKilla at 2/16/2016 7:18:40 AM