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BB USA > U21 National Team Debate Thread

U21 National Team Debate Thread (thread closed)

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276706.29 in reply to 276706.23
Date: 2/16/2016 4:32:53 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
7070
the fact of the matter is, you talk to some of the USA managers who are building u-21 players for other nations and these other nations have requirements of guys to have both inside and outside skills, passing and jr etc.

When was the last time the USA u-21 won anything with these same old builds? Isnt it time we realize that other skills make just as much if not more of an impact then the ones we have been focusing on?



I think that the training methods other nations cannot be ignored when we think about how we train. It is a fact that we are competing against other nations. If the other nations are training in manners of build that are different than the blueprints we have for ourselves, then its possible they have builds that we are not prepared for. On the other side, if we continually build the same way over and over and over and over and over and over... we become predictable, and then players can be built specifically for use in games vs us if need be.

I know, because this is the kinda thing I would do or employ... players built specifically to bust up, or counter, specific kinds of teams/players.

From: Nick

To: Nick
This Post:
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276706.30 in reply to 276706.11
Date: 2/16/2016 4:36:18 AM
Desert Eagles
III.12
Overall Posts Rated:
147147
Second Team:
Eagle Farm
Question for all: In the past few seasons, we have had a dying/ lack of interest in the U21. Our best draftees are being trained incorrectly or even having their potential wasted. What do you propose to do to solve this and encourage people back to the ways of training for U21?

This Post:
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276706.31 in reply to 276706.30
Date: 2/16/2016 4:53:22 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
7070
Question for all: In the past few seasons, we have had a dying/ lack of interest in the U21. Our best draftees are being trained incorrectly or even having their potential wasted. What do you propose to do to solve this and encourage people back to the ways of training for U21?



Interest in U21 (or NT for that matter) is a mindset. It is a national mindset that people have to want to buy into. There are managers that will seek it out for themselves, and try and become involved such as Duke Ward did. There are others, that won't really think about it until its brought to their attention via reaching out to them. There are also those that won't buy into it no matter what.

For each of these guys you have to approach them differently:
Key points to hit on with everyone though are the benefits of training period. Not even for U21. Just training period. If everyone trains, they become a little more invested in BB. They become a little more invested in their team, and their players. All this will lead to a better retention rate of managers for BB in general. With more players being trained, that will (side effect) help stabilize the transfer market some even.
So we need to re-focus efforts on training players and not brainwashing people into only certain potential players should even be bothered to be trained. Yes it makes no sense training Benchwarmers and announcers if you have better options. Yes there are better options to train for all ages and players. But if someone has a good star or allstar potential player... why are we trying to convince them they need to buy a Perennial Allstar or better and then train that player instead. One of the best players from the S33 draft class PERIOD I saw, was an allstar potential 6'6 guy. So we need to get them training and enjoying the game and what they're doing. If they don't have fun, why would they continue on with the game.

A problem with U21 training currently, is that it can be EXPENSIVE and newer managers are often not able to do that. The newer managers may need to focus on building their stadium out and maximizing their teams profit, before shelling out for level 4, 5, 6,7 trainers to train their trainees. Or than spending 5 mil on a 58 TSP player.

AS the scout for 18 year old big prospects from S33. What I would do is personalize the BB-mail I sent to managers after the generic "you have a u21 possibler guy, blah blah blah" I would personalize it, ask them what they wanted out of their team and how they wanted this guy to fit into their team. I explained the pros and cons and answered questions regarding U21 to them as well if they didn't know what it was. Once I was on the same page as them, then we could work on the builds for their players. I also would give them an idea as to how the other players their player was competing with was looking, so that would have an idea of how their player stacked up, it gave them a sense of achievement and satisfaction. This goes along with my personal belief that improving communication at ALL LEVELS of the U21 process is something that we need to place an emphasis on.

This Post:
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276706.32 in reply to 276706.31
Date: 2/16/2016 7:18:20 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
7070
I'd like to Say "Great Job" here to (24091), Isaiah, for the team's gold in the NT this year!

Last edited by EightPackKilla at 2/16/2016 7:18:40 AM

This Post:
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276706.33 in reply to 276706.27
Date: 2/16/2016 10:42:09 AM
Upsyndrome
III.15
Overall Posts Rated:
697697
Second Team:
Upsyndrome II
my intention was not to disparage your trainees or your team as you are doing fine obviously with both, but your method of only training players one way is a method that the u21 has been doing as long as i have been here and it has produced little to no results. Its time to do something different.

Wrong, my build is inside oriented at every position (1v1f being a training focus). It's different from your standard training methods as my methods actually work.

"You will lose." -Ivan Drago
This Post:
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276706.34 in reply to 276706.14
Date: 2/16/2016 11:01:20 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
He was simply a SB heavy big, not that much different then the typical Donkey. Look at what Hrudey is doing with guys, the SF's being built by multiple managers right now are looking great. We do not need more of the same donkey build players. We need a manager who can look at the game as a giant math problem in need of solving, as that is what is is and looking at it in any other way with the intention to outwit our opposition is asinine.


Don't look at what I'm doing as anything useful for the U21. Maybe, maaaaaaaybe someday the NT. Probably not even then. My trainees are fun, but when they're 21 they'd be chewed up alive by any of the dedicated donkey guards built to play OD, score inside and pass the ball. There's really just not enough time to do anything too unconventional with the U21 - prioritizing guys that start with good secondaries, maybe diverting some time to uncommonly trained skills, but you're not getting a guy with enough JR to shoot outside and can still play defense at anything approaching the U21 level.

From: Jason

This Post:
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276706.35 in reply to 276706.16
Date: 2/16/2016 11:14:27 AM
Arizona Desert Storm
III.3
Overall Posts Rated:
11181118

But only if you want to WIN. I don't tolerate losers.


With a career winning percentage of 28%, he's already established winning is not important.

This Post:
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276706.36 in reply to 276706.34
Date: 2/16/2016 11:27:43 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
5353
your builds were just an example of someone doing something outside the norm. Not necessarily saying you have u21 builds, just different then the standard boilerplate USA u21ers.
The u21 thoughts are that secondaries dont matter on players and that thought process is just asinine as every little bit helps, its a math game for crissakes, the higher the numbers the better!

This Post:
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276706.37 in reply to 276706.35
Date: 2/16/2016 11:35:12 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
5353
I dont think you can really look at a single 9 and 15 season as any indication of someones winning ability, im sure everyone here has atleast 1 losing season in team history, more than likely the first season.




Last edited by tetrahydroc at 2/16/2016 11:35:38 AM

This Post:
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276706.38 in reply to 276706.33
Date: 2/16/2016 11:36:42 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
5353
People who cannot change with the times will get surpassed, if the entire U21 and NT program outside of the USA is training all around players and destroying us every season, isnt the logical step for us to adopt this style of play?


1v1 F is all i hear anyone talk about on the offsite, this is nohing new from the same old builds that have been pushed down USA managers throats for years.

This Post:
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276706.39 in reply to 276706.37
Date: 2/16/2016 11:53:47 AM
Arizona Desert Storm
III.3
Overall Posts Rated:
11181118
I dont think you can really look at a single 9 and 15 season as any indication of someones winning ability, im sure everyone here has atleast 1 losing season in team history, more than likely the first season.


That's true....but it certainly highlights his inexperience....I just felt that if he is going to put down guys with significantly more experience and have no issue naming others deficiencies....well, it only seemed fair ;)

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