BuzzerBeater Forums

Yes, appropriate rule already exist from the beginning of this game. We don't need additional ones.

I understand your idea of protecting newbies, which is generally good...but consequences to the whole market will be bad, because it will cause less players on the market (even now is too less players), so less supply, and higher prices. You should consider wider impact of decisions, especially if you touch the market, where processes are more complicated.

The market is very important part of this game, while imho BB market is very ill even now what e.g. low prices on the best players prove. Reparing the market might increase interest of this game much more than protecting newbies.

The biggest problem for every market aren't overpriced goods but lack of goods and lack of choice, what you apparently don't spot. In effect lack of choice you need to pay more for worse quality goods. That's why players in different part of season should be priced differently because supply is different. This is what GMs sometime don't understand too, when they cut off transfers by 20-30%. Every player, even not trained can be worth 20-30% less or more in different parts of a season and this is normal on real markets where price of goods hesitate like this basing on supply and demand rights. Only significantly overpriced transfers (x1,5 x2 x3 etc.) and especially dubious from moral perspective transactions (e.g. transfers money to colleagues) should be cutted off.

Long story...

Last edited by kozlik4 at 4/3/2024 11:39:53 AM

There is one thing that is way more important than the state of the market, having enough playeras in BB so the game can last in the long run. You can argue whatever you want about the fact of lacking players in the market or anything, but yes trying to take advantage of the new players hurts everyone here.

Imagine that you as newbie, waste all the money that the game give you in a player that you later realize its waaaay overpriced. Or even worst, that a new players try to do things the right way and you save enough money to create a good proyect and because of your lack of knowledge you get "scam" by another user and buy a player wasting all the money that you save for actual years in real life. What does most of this new players do once they realize what a huge mistake that they have done ? Leave the game. And this hurts everyone on BB because at some point BB might not be able to stay alive if the player base is too small. Thats why we have to protect the new players, the goal is about having more people playing BB not being selfish and try to have more money faster at whatever cost.

Last edited by Villodres16 at 4/4/2024 4:13:57 AM

IMO, selling a player for "too high" of a price should only count as cheating if there's a preponderance of evidence that the purchasing team was related to the selling team -- you transferred money between your two accounts.

If the purchasing team is just some random other team, the seller shouldn't be punished for either patiently waiting to catch someone who really valued the player (or someone doing a showcase and getting his player scooped by some anti-NT farm or whatever shouldn't be punished by losing both his player and the bulk of the money from the sale, even if that anti-NT farm account turns out to be a multi account of some other player that the selling team is not related to).

Personally, I see the stories about people getting fined (or I see people trying to start a witch hunt to get someone fined) just because a player happened to go higher than what was thought of as a "fair price", even though the selling team clearly had no ill intention to sell the player for that. Like say the ATG player frenzy that happened on a few of the US ATG draftees this season - some of them pushed up to 6-7M+ even though the general consensus among US NT trainers & scouts was that 3-4M was more reasonable... but the push up in price came strictly from unrelated teams bidding against each other, with no bad faith by the selling manager. I'm not aware of any of those specific examples generating fines in this go-around, but if they _had_, I'd be very much opposed to those fines.

ALL users overpay for players, because the market is so ill and ridiculous that e.g. 18yo player without any positive influence on results of your team costs more than player with TSP above 160. Indicate me somebody, who has never overpaid for player. I did it many times. Last time not so long ago when I bought this player (50385420). I overpaid for him minimum 700k because I couldn't wait more on player who I was looking for. Are many users who are rady to pay a lot of money for particular quality player but they couldn't find him on TL and are forced to overpay for weaker player. Another case, everyone who buy a youngster overpay HUGLY and next overpay for personel also HUGLY. This is normal for you that users pay 4M for 18 yo player and then buy a trainer for 3M???

BB is long term strategy game when PATIENCE pay-off. Don't tell me that somebody who lose money on TL and leave the game from this reason would stay here longer

This game is FULL OF FRUSTRATING MOMENTS which everytime provoke to quit this game. You make one small mistake or you have bad luck and you lose a game in situation when you would win 90% of similar games and you need to wait 3 months to the next season to get a new chance...or even years of real life if you are in situation when you must remodel your team to come back few seasons later to be competitive again.

This game is FULL OF POSSIBILITIES TO LOSE MONEY...especially for newbies. You can lose a lot of money e.g. by

1 buying particular players and after few games changing strategy, selling this players and buying another ones (very popular way of losing money)
2 investing money in infastructure when rate of return is so loooooong...or demolish infrasturcture (50% loss) and build again.
3 badly completing roster of players with too high salary
4 buying youngsters for a lot of money and not training them or training badly.
5 builiding seats in wrong proportions in your arena and setting badly prices.
and many more...

Do we really need to destroy the market "for newbies" when they can lose money immediately on many another ways?

If we want to have more users we should repair this game instead of destroying it. We should make this game LESS COMPLICATED (I get questions every week from confused users because rules are so expanded and not intuitive and detached from reality like this fee for putting players on TL too many times) and even more important to make this game FASTER...I mean to create possibility to grow for teams faster.

My two ideas:
1. players in draft ready to give some value for teams immidiately...let's say 18-19 yo with skill on levels like current U-21 team players. It would heal many things:
a.) more attractive draft
b.) more attractive U-21 teams competition
c.) will help newbies build strong team faster and make promotion faster
d.) market will be healthier

2. introduce significantly falling salaries of veterans (let's say from 30yo+) like it is in NBA where veterans play for much lower salaries...but losing skills as it is now so starting from 34yo. This will also heal prices of players in this age (age of the highes quality play for player) on the market.

What you're saying seems to be obvious to me, but apparently it's not the case for everyone...

I understand your intentions but attracting new users by destroying important part of this game is not a way and I fully doubt would bring results.

If you think that a key part of this game is abusing on other players just because they dont have the knowledge of how this game works... Or the fact that if the we get rid off the hind of transfers that we are talking about ( selling waaaaaay overpriced) is going to destroy the market, tells me everything. You can buy low (we all know that before the new season you can buy players way cheaper than during the season) and sell at a normal high price, and thats completely fair and a really smart way to get some profit. But what you are defending is being selfish, take advantage of players without knowledge and if the users base is smaller you dont care because you have your good 25 m on the bank.

And I'm not going to try to answer to all the reasoning that your are giving in your message because its all about being selfish and all can be resume to: If there are so many ways that a new user can loose their money, why cant I add one more and jjst take their money instead? Because if they are going to lose it anyway It would be better for me to have It. And let me tell you that thats is selfish and not about thinking on the health of this game.

So now go ahead and develop whatever you want again to try to defend what you guys do, but I 'm not going to answer because it.

Its so sad but its the reality of BB...

If you think that a key part of this game is abusing on other players just because they dont have the knowledge of how this game works...

If this is your main conclusion from conversation with me I'm devastated and I completely lost willingness to further discussion🤦‍♂️ Calm down, and don't exaggerate. You sound like the BB market would be completely wild, newbies would be abused commonly there, and GMs wouldn't exist. This isn't true.

To be clear: I'm completely against any form of abusing. I'm for free market and I believe in GMs who stand on rules protection.

No more entries from my side.

Last edited by kozlik4 at 4/5/2024 5:39:03 AM

I completely agree with this. I had started drafting a reply along these lines but I think I didn't post it in the end. Many years ago (I think somewhere in the range from season 9-15) I was a GM and I was instructed to adjust any transfers that were significantly out of market value---regardless of foul play. I ultimately came to view this as an injustice to the players and many of the players whose transfer I had to adjust had rightful complaints about this. For one as you pointed out, there is a skill to listing appropriately. For another, even if one just got absurdly lucky, it's not like we have a compensatory mechanism for bad luck on the other side.