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A center can be trained in JS, passing an Shot Blocking and he can play as a center.

They are very important secundary skills for a center.

Well, since the discussion went to the 4 skill vs 6 skill ground, I thought it would be nice to find wages of guards that have only 4 skills trained (there are quite a few on the market)
I found this guy: (228686)
He adds up 40 on his 4 primarily trained skills, and carries a 13k wage
My center adds up 42 and carries a 37k wage
My other center adds up 36 and carries a 20k wage

If we consider only the best 3 skills (because people say C trainers train only 3 skills)
The guy I found: 32 and 13k
Center n1: 35 and 37k
Center n2: 32 and 20k

This was a pretty fast thing to do, I'm pretty sure anyone can find dozens of examples all around, which brings back the point that has still been ignored by most people defending the wage system carried out right now: centers have higher salaries even if they're less effective and even if they add up less skills total.

There's just no way this is right.

Last edited by LA-André at 3/23/2008 12:09:00 PM

You left the last number of de id, the guy that you are speaking about has this id (2286861)

And thats the big problem, how can you say that handling is a primary hability for a SG? This is a nonsense.

The salary increase for a SG happens when you combine JS, JR and OD, those are the 3 skills you have to take into account.

By the moment, they are not really much SG that have a triple proficience, not even in the market. Try to find them, not even one.

Look what the centers with those primary skills are

(2671723) ---> 15k

And with a few less primary skills..

(2455651) ---> 10k
(902188) ----> 9k
(2274834) ----> 12k

And you can find much more, but i am not going to copy-paste all the transfer list. Do you think really that if you put to these guys a prolific in JS and SB they are going to earn 25k??

There is a NT that trains to his SG the 3 primary habilities (JS, JR and OD). His name is Italy, they dont train JUST those 3 habilities, but they have spend lots of weeks training JS, JR and OD.

Look at this players.

(668688) ----> 19,5k
(752572) ----> 19k
(676015) ----> 22,5k

This thread has nonsense, i repeat it and the BBs can repeat it again.
The only thing that happens here is that SG trainers are stepping up PG habilities, and the PG are also training SG habilities. However, people who train centers, they JUST train center habilities, and that makes the wages to increase in this way for them.

Conclusion: outside players are not as developed in their primary skills as the inside players are.
End of the debate.

Try to start training secundary skills or you will lost your players, as easy as that ;)

Regards.

End your post, don't end the debate. It's not up to you.
As it's also not up to you to decide what's primary skill and what's not.

Unfortunately there aren't enough C examples at market to contrast with the Guard I mentioned. The only example I found of a C close enough to his skills adding at the primary skills you chose was a guy that added up 29 vs. Pablo Cubides 30, salary was at 15660 vs 13000, which is still a significant distortion.

Now the other point is: why doesn't salary increase accordingly to training, independently of if its vertical (as is happening with Cs) or horizontal (as with Gs)?

It isn't an advantage to have a very vertical player vs. a very horizontal player, so why should it be more expensive?

Notice that I agree to disagree at the first point, I still think Cs are making more money than Gs even if they have similar levels all around (though I agree that in general Cs are more vertical right now than guards). But this still doesn't get to the point in bold.

End your post, don't end the debate. It's not up to you.

As it's also not up to you to decide what's primary skill and what's not.

First point its true, the debate ends when everybody finishes the discussion. "end the debate" is a Spanish expression ("fin del debate") wich means that everything its now clear. I translate it in a literal way and maybe you didn´t understand what i was trying to say.

In the second point im not agree with you, i´ve maid my own studies and i know pretty good wich are the primary skills for every position (at least if we speak about the growth of the wages), maybe i dont know definitively how does the wave formula works, but if we are going to compare players and the salary increase we have to do it in the same conditions.

I think that the examples i have given explained properly what i wanted to say, you dont say anything about Italian players, all those guys were trained (nearly, not at all) in a "center form" (i mean, training just the 3 primary habilities during a large period of time).

Normally, i read the threads of the global, but i prefer to write in the forums of my own language (my english is not very well, sorry), but when i saw this thread i answered because i am seeing this since the beginnings of season 3, i adviced all the people who was training inside players to be careful because they were creating non-hybrid monsters (in a few years they are going to cost in the market 0$) which dont have good secondary skills in lots of cases, then i came and i see this and i feel like a "deja vu", if they know how does this work, why are they complaining and they just are STILL TRAINING ID, IS and RB??
I cant understand this.

Anyway, consider trainings like Shot Blocking, JS, Passing or Driving for Inside players, try making hybrids, otherwise all the work is going to dissapear. Its just an advise, i dont like to train IS or 1 on 1 to my SG, but i know that if i just train JS, JR and OD my guys are going to come standstill very fast.

I'm a little disappointed in your discussion method. It seems you don't even leave some room for other opinions. It seems that you only think yours is right and others are all wrong. Maybe i'm wrong there, at least I hope I'm wrong.
But posts like this are just really weird:

This thread has nonsense, i repeat it and the BBs can repeat it again.

How can you ever know the opinion of another person, like a BB? You just can't, and you can't just call opinions other than yours 'nonsense'. That's just completely wrong.

I see a lot of discussion here, but again my post about the contribution vs salary is ignored most of the time. Maybe because everyone accepts it as the truth or something?

I would like to hear some other arguments about that, instead of just the simple words "I disagree"

The point was that a 42k salary Center contributes less or equal to the team ratings as a 15k Guard.
You can read my whole post here: (20034.29)

Oh your point here:

If a shooting guard trainer starts to train ONLY JS,JR an OD he will be in the same problems,

It just not true. Andre posted a perfect example of a player with 13k who had only JS,JR and OD.


Last edited by BB-Patrick at 3/23/2008 3:20:17 PM

Yeah that's a good point about the two position training, but I do miss the link with the salary/team contribution part?

As far as salary is concerned, my impression is that it depends on the relevance of the skills for the position. Therefore, since guards have more relevant skill, this clearly drives their wages down, because you can't train all of them.

Yeah I do think it works like this right now. But I think that's wrong or not fair.

Salarycalculation shouldn't look at the relevance and amount of skills per position, but it should look at the contribution of the players to the ratings.
The way it works right now is that you can relatively boost your outside ratings more easy (lower skills gets higher ratings in comparison to centers) than inside ratings, while you got a lower salary. Like I said before if you play 4 inside players with a total of 100k salary you will get the same ratings as 4 guards with a total of 50k salary.