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I think I'll update this soon, but I'm beginning to believe that Pressure and Inside Defense train slower than other skills.

My own non-quantified opinion is that Pressure (training only PG) doesn't train any slower. And I've taken a player to prolific outside D.

Another gut feeling that I have is that Pressure may be extra sensitive to height. It seems like my 5'11" guard has fared much, much better than my 6'7" one.

I will release first results of my 7 weeks training outside shooting with level 9 trainer:

Training type: Outside shooting
Position: PG/SG
Age: 18y - 20y
Height: 6'1" - 6'3"

JR jumps: 2-4 weeks
JS jumps: 4-5 weeks
(no other jumps for 7 weeks)

I hope this will help, I will continue with this training as long as I can have 3 games per week.

Coach Level 8-9

2 weeks pressure PG, another 2 weeks pressure PG/SG:
18 - 1,96m ~ 4 Weeks OD from 7 to 9
19 - 1,75m ~ 4 Weeks OD from 8 to 10
20 - 1,90m ~ 4 Weeks OD from 7 to 8, ID from 2 to 3, HN from 5 to 6

Forwards:
Trains JS @ 2-3 weeks
Trains IS @ 7-8 weeks

Wingmen:
Trains JS @ 2-3 weeks
Trains JR @ 7-8 weeks
Trains DV @ 7-8 weeks
Trains HN @ 7-8 weeks

Is this right? Seems unfair that training wingmen would train DV & HN and not if you train forwards.

Steve
Bruins

One on One
Guards:
Trains DV @ 2-3 weeks
Trains HN @ 3-4 weeks
Trains IS @ 7-8 weeks
Trains JS @ 7-8 weeks

I guess JS is faster than 7-8 weeks, maybe 4-5 weeks, anyone noticed this too?

Dv 2 weeks
Hn 2-3 weeks
JS 2-3 weeks

I trained 1 on 1 a lot of time and it was something like that.

IS was never trained for guards, that just happen when you train PF 1 on 1.

From my experience, One on One for guards trains 3 Skills with same speed, DV, HN and JS... My player Omar Krasnič popped once in all these 3 Skills, then I trained something else, Pressure, I think, and then after two weeks of One on One, he popped in all 3 Skills again... And he's 23...

I think in this one and half year I trained JS once or twice, I'm constantly rotating between One on One, Outside Shooting, Pressure and Passing, and I have 3 players with prominent JS (all start from respectable or lower), I have one strong (rookie, started from average) and one mediocre JS (bought him this season, started from awful... So, if you don't train JS at all, and constantly train One on One, you'll get JS pop every 3-4 wees... I think I trained Pressure the most, and I have only one player prominent in OD... Plus 2 proficient, 1 respectable and 1 average (he was pitiful when I started)...

And I think you really train faster when rotating training, for example, my player Miško Tuponja had 19 pops in 22 weeks, so almost 1 pop per week... So I would never stick to one training more then 2 weeks in a row...

Since I have time, and you need informations, I'll post here my training (trainer 8-10, always PG/SG training) and Miško's pops:

Week 1, Outside Shooting, no pops
Week 2, Outside Shooting, JR - inept
Week 3, Passing (entire team), no pops
Week 4, Outside Shooting, no pops
Week 5, Jump Shot, JS - respectable
Week 6, Pressure, OD - awful
Week 7, Outside Shooting, no pops
Week 8, Passing, PS - strong
Week 9, Pressure, DV - respectable
Week 10, Pressure, OD - inept
Week 11, One on One, no pops
Week 12, One on One, JS - strong, HN - strong, DV - strong
Week 13, Pressure, OD - mediocre, ID - mediocre
Week 14, Outside Shooting, JR - mediocre
Week 15, One on One, no pops
Week 16, One on One, JS - proficient, DV - proficient
Week 17, Outside Shooting, no pops
Week 18, Passing, HN - proficient
Week 19, One on One, no pops
Week 20, Pressure, OD - average
Week 21, One on One, JS - prominent, DV - prominent
Week 22, Passing, HN - prominent

Well, as you can see, rotating is the key :) And to mention, he's 20...

this guy pops 4 times in OD in 5 pressure trainings?

Are you sure you didn't miss some information there?
Because it's more like 18 yo, PG only, lvl 10, 1 in 2 weeks, since your player is even 19/20 all this time, 4 out of 5 is very much, even with subskill training.

PG/SG takes even longer, 1 in 3, maybe 3 in 7 for 18yo.

And passing he pops 3 times in 3,2 training? 1 whole team training which adds not that much, 3 pg/sg trainings and 3 pops?

Even with subskill training, I think these numbers are very crazy.

Edit: Oops I didn't saw he was 20, I though he was 18 and 19, this makes it even more weird.

Last edited by BB-Patrick at 4/25/2008 1:14:15 PM

If your observations of the effects of One-on-one training are accurate, then JS traning for guards just became obsolete.

I have just trained One on One for my guards, first week, and gotten 5 pops. a 19 y/o PG popped in JS DR and HD, a 21 y/o pop to strong in DR, and a 21 y/o SG whom is now a SF popped to inept in HD. The 19 y/o poped to average in JS and DR and inept in HD. And it was only my first week training One on One. BTW I have a level 7 trainer.

It's not just guards.

I've just completed a little four week experiment in 1v1 training. I have a level 9 trainer, and an entire squad (nearly) of youngsters. Therefore I've been experimenting at training the entire team.

My findings are:
Wk 1
4 pops in Handling
6 pops in Driving

Wk 2
3 pops in Handling
5 pops in Driving
1 pop in Jump Shot

Wk 3
4 pops in Handling
3 pops in Driving
2 pops in Jump Shot

Wk 4
5 pops in Driving
3 pops in Handling.

By the end of the fourth week, my pops per player were:


DR HN
DR HN DR
DR HN
DR JS HN
DR HN DR
DR HN DR HN
DR HN JS DR
DR HN DR
DR HN
DR HN JS
DR HN
DR HN
DR HN

Every player in my squad had popped in DR by the third week, and those who popped in week 1 popped again in week 4, so it looks like pretty exactly 3 weeks to pop in DR if the whole team is trained. Nearly everyone got a pop in HN after 3 weeks, but only one player has had a second HN pop, so I think that's more like 3 and a bit weeks. Only a quarter of my team have popped in JS (a shooting guard, a small forward and a power forward, so position isn't much of a guide), so that implies a training rate of about 16 weeks.


According to the first post in the thread, the expectations from training two positions are:

Guards:
Trains DV @ 2-3 weeks
Trains HN @ 3-4 weeks
Trains IS @ 7-8 weeks
Trains JS @ 7-8 weeks

Forwards:
Trains DV @ 1.8 weeks
Trains HN @ 2.3 weeks
Trains IS @ 7-8 weeks
Trains JS @ 7-8 weeks

If that is true, my regime above trains five positions (i.e. 5/2 of the impact) but the reduction in effectiveness is nowhere near 2/5. My results show almost no reduction in DV results, a little reduction in HN results, and some significant reduction in JS results (to maybe half as effective. I have seen no pops in IS as a result of 1v1 training.

In other words training the whole team is much more effective overall than just training two positions. This runs counter to the 'received wisdom' on the forum. Over four weeks I've got 36 pops. I don't think you could match that training just one or two positions. So I think it's time for a re-think about this.

I've now trained two techniques on a whole team basis: 1v1 and jump shot. Both seem to show more improvement spread across all the players than I had expected.

Finally, the figures seem to support the theory that changing training rapidly pays off. I got ten pops in the first week, then 9, then 9, then 8. Possibly that's just because I had more players in the first week or shared the minutes out better, but I think it also relates to the 'balancing' training issue.