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Sorry to interrupt, but I don’t think the match time is very relevant. Since the matches are likely during the week, many of us, even if they are at a good time, might not be able to watch them due to commitments (work, study, etc.), so I would suggest setting a random time

I agree, Chucarro.

Wagner disagrees.

As Commissioner, we will accept his decision in the end. I am just concerned at this point, with limited time left before the start of the new season and our HGL, that he is doing too much unnecessary work on this.

I know your lack of trust is the reason why you think we have to have a set time, Wagner, but I really think it is going to be much easier if we don't have a time, OR, you just pick a random time and we use it. It has to be one or the other. It is going to be extremely laborious to get every team's time difference in relation to every other team's time difference.

Benefit of using a fixed time, that doesn't exceed the actual date boundaries in any part of our participating countries (if it would be 3PM EET, then for you it would be 9PM your local time, and for deano25 it couldn't be later than 11PM so match would still take place on Monday), is also finishing the match almost at the same time.
This, at least theoretically, has multiple benefits in addition to one key reason, which has been mentioned earlier, also by you in this message.

Benefit of matches ending same time have been discussed in previous messages, but include:
- you don't see match results from the same round of play before your match even starts
- creates a standard for the league
- minimizes the chance to re-match
- theoretically results are quicker available; possibly quicker updating of league table.
Otherwise there could be huge difference on when matches are actually completed.
Example: team in West coast USA chooses to play at 12.05AM on Monday, vs. team in Eastern Australia decides to schedule the game for Monday starting at 23.55PM. So that's already 23h 50min due to decided difference in starting times, PLUS difference of GMT-8 and GMT-10, which is 18 hours, so in total difference in starting times could be around 42 hours if I calculated correctly!

Even if we would use designated local time, difference in starting times could be as huge as 16-18 hours between the teams. So these things presented should make it obvious, what are the benefits of a standard/designated match time.

Although you didn't elaborate on the need for a fixed time, I can read between the lines. And, I know you won't like me saying this, however, again, open trust should be our initial philosophy.

I'm also reading between the lines here. With due all respect, I'm not always sure why it is necessary to dislike some system in large parts due to having built the way that it minimizes unwanted behavior? I may not know what all reasons for dislike would be (and I don't even need to know them), but it's just my two cents.

Does having locks in doors either prevent all burglaries, or on the other hand make one a burglar because they now feel that they are not being trusted by their neighbors/random people? Neither, I think, but practice of having locks on doors serves some purpose, that falls into the middle ground in that sense. I guess all of us have come accustomed to some rules in society, and if we would see them only as 'an open statement of distrust', I'm not sure we could even live within our respective countries.

I assure you, there will be million ways left how you can sabotage this league and f* things up for many of us if that's what you want to do, so it will be still very, very much reliant on trust no matter what kind of rule/penalty set I will present before the regular season launches.

Does that mean it's better to throw all rules and penalties to the bin? I don't think so. Does it mean rules/penalties for the Season 1 need to be refined later? Most likely, but that's not the worry we have right now on our hands.

Yet, having said that (knowing you will again disagree with me)...as Commissioner, just pick a random time and that is what everyone will use. Easy. Done. :D

Alright, I'll try to think some time based on many factors. Most participants are from Europe, so it might be sensible to use that as a "middle point" or "reference" when creating fixed time, and assume that "typical BB afternoon match time" would be ideal (which it necessarily isn't) for teams.

Sorry to interrupt, but I don’t think the match time is very relevant. Since the matches are likely during the week, many of us, even if they are at a good time, might not be able to watch them due to commitments (work, study, etc.), so I would suggest setting a random time

I think it's relevant enough to spend time on, as you can see from all my posts that concern that issue, including the one just before this.

If we go with your theory that time doesn't matter if people are not going to watch these matches live in most cases, then it shouldn't matter to managers whatever the time will be.

Also, negative side of "random time" (compared to that you presented is also opened up in my previous post.

I think we should be able to communicate it clearly and easily to all managers what the time it is they need to use when sending challenges, immediately as we can find out local times for those 4 remaining managers (deano25+teams from USA) and after I've made a decision on what fixed time is (which is almost set, but depends also on deano25s' answer).

Example: if I decide 4PM EET to be the official start time of all matches in HGL, then it would mean for WiMaOlCa who is located in France, which is -1 to my reference time, that he would send all his challenges so that they start at 15.00, or 3PM.
Official Designated Starting Time in hours, minus or plus the reference number given in the team description (that I almost completely provided already, minus 5 teams, but I know MrJ already). Easy enough in my opinion.

Last edited by Wagner at 3/19/2025 9:11:32 AM

You know I like you, Wagner...and we do not need to agree on everything to have a strong and healthy BB relationship. And while I don't entirely agree with your arguments, I admit their many merits. With that said, I will not take up any more of your time challenging your determination to have a set time. You have been working hard on setting up the HGL and we are close to a final product. I have just been concerned (as I stated previously) that you are perhaps working too hard on this detail.

Okay...

...I think your final comment regarding keeping it close to the afternoon time BB traditionally uses, or at least as a guide for choosing a time, is an excellent idea and likely the getting us close to a result.

We await your decision, Wagner. If there is anything you would like me to do please ask. I will be online for another hour while I finish my full scout of teams in my division in preparation for next season.

Last edited by MrJ at 3/19/2025 9:15:10 AM

You know I like you, Wagner...and we do not need to agree on everything to have a strong and healthy BB relationship. And while I don't entirely agree with your arguments, I admit their many merits.

Thank you, and well said - and in short (yes, to save time in this case) actually same words back to you, MrJ!

...I think your final comment regarding keeping it close to the afternoon time BB traditionally uses, or at least as a guide for choosing a time, is an excellent idea and likely the getting us close to a result.

We await your decision, Wagner. If there is anything you would like me to do please ask. I will be online for another hour while I finish my full scout of teams in my division in preparation for next season.

Thanks! Likely very clear to all, but this aforementioned (likely) "afternoon time" in Europe, official designated match time in HGL, would depend on where everybody lives, and for Australian teams it would be late evening and for teams in The Americas it would be morning.

I just sent BBMail to deano25, Gccsteel, BigChill and T-Lit to ask in which time zone they reside - hopefully that'll reach them sooner than this thread will, and we have even more clear understanding on which time zones HGL teams play in.

Based also on that information I receive from them, I'll then make decision on time and let you know here on this thread so we can start preparing everything in terms of organizing matches.

I just sent BBMail to deano25, Gccsteel, BigChill and T-Lit to ask in which time zone they reside - hopefully that'll reach them sooner than this thread will, and we have even more clear understanding on which time zones HGL teams play in.

Based also on that information I receive from them, I'll then make decision on time and let you know here on this thread so we can start preparing everything in terms of organizing matches.

Excellent.

I replied in the Bbmail, but I’m in Victoria, which is GMT +10 as far as I know.

Maybe I wasn’t clear enough in my point: when I said a random time, I meant that all the matches should be at the same time, but that time should be chosen by you or anyone else, it doesn’t matter. Once that time is chosen, all the matches should be at that time

I replied in the Bbmail, but I’m in Victoria, which is GMT +10 as far as I know.

What might cause even more confusion here is difference in our locations on the other sides of the world (and winter here being summer there if my memory serves me, while some might argue you have only summer;). I guess due to that Daylight Savings Time is applied in Australia during winter months, while in Finland it is applied in summer between 30 March to 26 October.

So currently many online services show that Victoria would be GMT+11 currently (due to DST currently applied? Australian Eastern Daylight Time?), but when Australian Eastern Standard Time is once again applied (for Eastern Australia AEST?) from beginning of 6 April, it'll go back in time 1 hour and then this normal time of GMT+10 should apply to Eastern Australia.

So as I was asking to give GMT time with regards to normal time (not DST), then I think we could conclude, that Deano25 is at GMT+10 and in relation to reference (EET), his teams' reference number is +8(?).

I'm sure there could be some inaccuracies with my thinking, but this is as close as I was able to figure it out (please correct if I'm wrong), and so I already updated these aforementioned numbers to a list created earlier today on this thread.

Only waiting for a response from BigChill, to complete the list of time zones.
EDIT:
If you guys happen to know he's in BB discord, would you mind sending him a message in there that he has BBMail? He has logged in couple of days ago last time.

Last edited by Wagner at 3/19/2025 10:40:09 AM

Maybe I wasn’t clear enough in my point: when I said a random time, I meant that all the matches should be at the same time, but that time should be chosen by you or anyone else, it doesn’t matter. Once that time is chosen, all the matches should be at that time

Right. Well, in that case I misinterpreted the word random, as I had different meaning for it in mind in this usage.
But that exactly is the plan and goal here: HGL matches start (and approximately also finish) at the same time, no matter what part of world you reside. I will provide that answer soon, after getting a reply to BBMail from BigChill.

Last edited by Wagner at 3/19/2025 10:41:42 AM

My fellow managers,
as you have noticed, we have been discussing about using fixed/designated time for HGL matches, so that they start at exactly the same time no matter which part of world you are. Now that I received an answer from BigChill, I have all time zone information available, and will update it to a table done and posted today on this thread. Based on all information, I have reached the best compromise I was able to come up with, keeping in mind that it might be preferable to choose either an exact hour, or half an hour as a starting time (and not, say, 5 to 3PM for instance). Therefore, as we are literally 17-18 hours away from each other at most, all times are going to be compromise of some sort.

The official designated match time for all HGL matches is 14.30, on other words 2.30PM EET (Eastern European Time) normal time, not Daylight Savings Time, DST. EET time zone is GMT+2. This EET will function for us as a reference time (but further explanation will follow later, if you still didn't read Homegrown teams II-thread posts on Wednesday).

I will also copy this information to official HGL threads, by adding time zone and match times information to the participating teams list, likely before the team name as in aforementioned team name/time zone table published today, here: (324689.559).
If you see an error in your time information, please send me a BBMail (preferable) or message on forum.

In the team name list after time zone/reference marking I will include the time, that team uses when arranging/organizing matches, which they are responsible of organizing. All regular season matches are organized at this same time, so in that sense it's logical and easy.

For example: GMT-5/-7=07.30AM.
This means: team is located in time zone GTM-5. The difference to reference time (GMT+2, Eastern European Time is used as a reference) is -7 hours, so reference number of team is -7. So therefore all matches organized by this team in question will start 2.30PM minus 7 hours=07.30AM local time.
For teams west of Eastern European Time zone, GMT and reference number will of course be plus, so it will be added to 2.30PM starting time to conclude what is the actual local starting time for the match.

As you may remember from earlier post, we have agreed to use a system with 8 volunteered teams who do most of the organizing, but each and every one of us, also those rest 8 non-volunteered teams are responsible for sending some challenges. As also mentioned earlier, which team is responsible for challenging has already been marked to the schedule by bolding the team name.

I might update the information here or to the official HGL thread tomorrow (and just update the name table on this thread, so that you can check it out for possible errors.
When checking out your information (whether GMT information is correct in table, and whether your match start time is correct), please remember: we use standard time, not DST.

For example in Finland "normal time", a.k.a. winter time, is EET (Eastern European Time) GMT+2, but Daylight Savings Time (DST, "summer time") is GMT+3. And for instance difference between USA East coast and Finland is normally 7 hours (GMT-5 and GMT+2), but for a short period we're only 6 hours apart, as US already started using DST on March 9th and we'll do that later this month. But again, for the purposes of this HGL we will use Standard Time, not DST.

I'm currently very tired, so I probably make this sound a lot more complicated than it is. Yes, differences between countries on applying DST (or to which way it is added, as we today noticed a dramatic difference between Europe and Australia) could create some situations in where matches are not ending exactly at the same time, but this is best I can come up with this time on my hands. More tomorrow, but I'll update the table before heading to bed. Here's the link to it: (324689.559).